dealer trying to rip me off?

[jerseycat10]

this is a very odd read.

 

 

What? You didn't learn something here?

 

I hoped you learned something... if you dont know what you are talking about, then dont say anything. No offense, but you were oblivious to the O/CC mintmark, and subsequently, the real value of the coin. Your bad information could have negatively influenced a new collector to make a bad decision.

[needshelp-migration]

this is a very odd read.

 

 

What? You didn't learn something here?

 

I hoped you learned something... if you dont know what you are talking about, then dont say anything. No offense, but you were oblivious to the O/CC mintmark, and subsequently, the real value of the coin. Your bad information could have negatively influenced a new collector to make a bad decision.

+1111111

 

THANK YOU! To be honest, after his whole ordeal i almost said screw it and looked for another forum. im glad i didnt because i got some real help from some very kind people on here.

[jwc]

glad you were able to find some honest dealers out there!

[morganguru]

<<this is a 1900 -O/O/CC and your saying he wasnt trying to rip me off? red book ms63 is $750......MS60 red book is $300. and those are for the non die clashed vam-8An coins >>

 

Looks like a 1900-O/O/CC VAM 8B to me. That being said, maybe the dealer was thinking it would be a tough sell, you went to him, no one forced you. Perhaps he was unaware of it's value. Don't let it get you down, slab it with the VAM on the insert, list it on Ebay with quality macro shots and let it ride.

 

 

EDIT: Appears to be a 62 could go 63. Don't expect to get full blown Redbook price walking into a B&M, or even near it, just the way it is.

[wdrob]

You know Jersey that post just shows how completely IGNORANT YOU ARE!

 

I started by stating: "I dont really think he was trying to rip you off."

 

Nothing definitive there. I Think..... But wait it gets even better.

 

I clearly stated at the end: "I may be missing something that a very knowledgeable member here can elaborate on but that Obverse is kinda mangled up in my opinion."

 

I made the concession up front that I was not a very knowledgeable collector however I was not going to go do hours of research to find all out VAM's and what different MM variations were out there. They have an entire book on Morgans and it's varieties. What may be clear to you may not be to others. And I will bet there are many that were not very knowledgeable in that area as well since it wasn't until Bill came in and posted that a more knowledgeable opinion came into the discussion.

 

I made my opinion known on what I thought the grade would be. And i was not very far off there it would seem since all have came to about the same conclusion.

 

Now to you question ; "Did you learn something here". Once again you are showing your Ignorance. I think I made it clear with that statement that I had learned something. The topic is 'Can you spare a grade?" I did just that ..... I doesn't say "And tell me all about VAM's and only make a guess on a grade if you have been collecting 50+ years.

 

You are a disgusting person!

 

 

[skeeter]

Thanks for the input on this forum and appreciate the knowleged gained. I have some Morgans and Peace dollars that qualify for a MS slab ( IMO from the research here and other publications). I prefer not to submit based on my knowledge as I would probably receive more body bags than slabs. Several that I have posted on this forum have received constructive comments however pictures have not been my forte. Any suggestions are welcome. ( maybe send them to Shane or similar member for evaluation)

Skeeter

[jerseycat10]

You know Jersey that post just shows how completely IGNORANT YOU ARE!

 

Why, because I pointed out that you were spreading misinformation?

 

I started by stating: "I dont really think he was trying to rip you off."

 

Nothing definitive there. I Think..... But wait it gets even better.

 

In your first post in this thread, you stated; "MS63 of that coin is $69.60."

 

Thats pretty definitive if you ask me.

 

 

I made my opinion known on what I thought the grade would be. And i was not very far off there it would seem since all have came to about the same conclusion.

 

Anyone with half a brain could grade that coin within a 1 point variance.

Now to you question ; "Did you learn something here". Once again you are showing your Ignorance. I think I made it clear with that statement that I had learned something. The topic is 'Can you spare a grade?" I did just that ..... I doesn't say "And tell me all about VAM's and only make a guess on a grade if you have been collecting 50+ years.

 

I have no concern about you venturing a grade, which in my opinion, your grade estimate is correct. My concern is you putting a value on a coin that is far from realistic.

 

 

You are a disgusting person!

 

Thats a little harsh.

[mtnstyne]

I think both the offers you got from the dealers were both fair offers. I think they are over grading it but maybe in person it has something in eye appeal you can't see in the pictures.

 

Glad to see you found a couple honest dealers!

[wdrob]

You know Jersey that post just shows how completely IGNORANT YOU ARE!

 

Why, because I pointed out that you were spreading misinformation?

 

 

 

Of-course not. I would never base a characterization of ignorance based solely on this one ridiculous post of yours.

 

But now a 31 year old "Computer Programmer" that has to go elsewhere to get rid of a virus and spyware problem...... Well now.....that is just IGNORANCE!...

 

I do my home work on people that come in to make a comment simply as a jab and to offer nothing else.

 

Also ...needshelp .... I am glad that you went to the other town. Seems like you got a fair shake there. I hope you took their money and ran. Things can goofy trying to get rid of a great amount of merchandise on eBay or the like. Maybe taking the advise to get in touch with James is sound..... Much sounder than my advise...I never intended to steer you wrong.

 

Also.....sorry about your Fathers passing.

 

 

[jerseycat10]

You know Jersey that post just shows how completely IGNORANT YOU ARE!

 

Why, because I pointed out that you were spreading misinformation?

 

 

 

Of-course not. I would never base a characterization of ignorance based solely on this one ridiculous post of yours.

 

But now a 31 year old "Computer Programmer" that has to go elsewhere to get rid of a virus and spyware problem...... Well now.....that is just IGNORANCE!...

 

I do my home work on people that come in to make a comment simply as a jab and to offer nothing else.

 

 

Congratulations, you did a google search on my username and now you are an expert.

 

If I was a computer technician, i'd be embarrassed by your detective work, but alas, I am a computer programmer, and I leave any computer problems to the experts.

 

Now, stop posting and start learning noob.

[ldhair]

I would give the coin MS-61 or 62, based on the images. Nice find.

[coinman1794]

this is a 1900 -O/O/CC and your saying he wasnt trying to rip me off? red book ms63 is $750......MS60 red book is $300. and those are for the non die clashed vam-8An coins

 

The real question would be, "did you tell the dealer what variety this was," because most would not detect it on their own without it being pointed out. His offer price was commensurate with a raw, choice unc 1900-O.

[FishyOne]

update- i just got back from taking it to 2 dealers in the next town over (kansas city). the 1st graded it ms64 and offered 440 and the 2nd offered 375 saying it was a toss between ms63 and ms64. NEVER going to the local dealer again. im so glad i didnt take his offer. makes me wonder how many other coins he ripped me off on....

 

Those sound like very strong offers. Your piece must have excellent luster.

[needshelp-migration]

i thought i had already stated this but maybe not, either way the answer coinman is yes. i pointed it out. played out along these lines -

i walk in, knowing im in the process of trying to sell this collection he greets me with " whatcha got for me today bub ". i replied with " think i got something special today". i pull the coin out with a print out of the vamworld 1900 o/cc vam 8B page including photos. he looks the coin over for a minute or so then says "sure is an o/cc aint it". then he pulls out blue book.... realizes the blue book dont list the 1900 o/cc he pulls out the red book. sits there for about 2 minutes looking the prices up and says "well it sure is a nice one you got here. id probably be able to do bout 60 on it for ya". looking back on it now he probably thought id be happy since he bought the last 8 ms morgans for $24 each. anyways, point is that he knew it was a o/cc when making the offer. now these im sure arent 110% word for word but id say its for sure at least 95% word for word.

[needshelp-migration]

update- i just got back from taking it to 2 dealers in the next town over (kansas city). the 1st graded it ms64 and offered 440 and the 2nd offered 375 saying it was a toss between ms63 and ms64. NEVER going to the local dealer again. im so glad i didnt take his offer. makes me wonder how many other coins he ripped me off on....

 

Those sound like very strong offers. Your piece must have excellent luster.

 

i honestly am to much of a noob to tell you how good the luster is. i can only say everyone thats held it in hand has said it was a beauty and that the reverse was really really good and that the obverse would hold the coin back at a 63 not because it had light marks but because of how many there were.....

[coinman1794]

i thought i had already stated this but maybe not, either way the answer coinman is yes. i pointed it out. played out along these lines -

i walk in, knowing im in the process of trying to sell this collection he greets me with " whatcha got for me today bub ". i replied with " think i got something special today". i pull the coin out with a print out of the vamworld 1900 o/cc vam 8B page including photos. he looks the coin over for a minute or so then says "sure is an o/cc aint it". then he pulls out blue book.... realizes the blue book dont list the 1900 o/cc he pulls out the red book. sits there for about 2 minutes looking the prices up and says "well it sure is a nice one you got here. id probably be able to do bout 60 on it for ya". looking back on it now he probably thought id be happy since he bought the last 8 ms morgans for $24 each. anyways, point is that he knew it was a o/cc when making the offer. now these im sure arent 110% word for word but id say its for sure at least 95% word for word.

 

If that is what happened, he was trying to rip you off.

[e1cnr]

You have great closeups, but what is the on the nose? The obverse looks ugly to me, and would be happy at 61 and be stretching it at 62. The die clash lines and die cracks give it an unpleasant appearance to me.

 

I would have a hard time pricing it in a genuine, UNC details slab.

 

Why are you selling it at a local dealership? You have the pics, wht not sell on eBay and get full retail rather than go somewhere that offers 40-80%?

 

 

Was the first dealer trying to rip you off? Just trying to get it a price they feel comfortable with (they have overhead, and could be in inventory for years.

 

 

What do you feel about 'cash for gold' type stores, that pay 10 - 20% of melt?

[slingshot-migration]

Definitely die cracks reverse. Not sure about obverse as some of the marks could be bag marks or scratches. If scratches lowered value and details grade. If bag marks somewhat lowered value. Don't know the series well enough to tell you about the VAM but, if you looked it up your probably correct. Based upon the coin price you quoted in the red book I'd submit it to NGC and see what it comes back. Don't forget to note the VAM designation. I don't know if that costs extra as I've never submitted to NGC. Good luck! Coin dealer ripping you I don't know? Maybe he doesn't know it is a VAM!! If it doesn't come back scratched obverse I'll go MS62 as the bag marks preclude a MS63 though on this coin the luster is great and the cameo is good also.

[mikew148]

update- i just got back from taking it to 2 dealers in the next town over (kansas city). the 1st graded it ms64 and offered 440 and the 2nd offered 375 saying it was a toss between ms63 and ms64. NEVER going to the local dealer again. im so glad i didnt take his offer. makes me wonder how many other coins he ripped me off on....

 

This coin must look much nicer in hand, sometimes images and lighting can be deceiving, but I don't see how that obverse gets in a 64 holder. I think 63 is a stretch. That's the bad news.

 

The good news is - that coin has a Ton of character! Die breaks, letter transfers, Clashes all over the place, not to mention the O/O/CC. Looks like it has some nice luster to it as well.

If it was in better condition I'd make you a strong offer on it myself.

 

From your images it looks to be a 62, outside shot at 63, and I think the $440 was a very generous offer.

[benjmurts]

Yes it is a 1900 O/O/CC but do you really think the dealer is going to tell you that. Come on, are you really going to trust what a dealer says. The pictures on Google don't lie. So many people get screwed because of lack of knowledge. That's the point of the forum, for people to learn.

[CollectorCorner-migration]

As for as the die cracks, they add intrigue but not much of anything else. Some say it takes away from the appeal. Others say it adds value to those that look for such oddities.

 

If your concerned about the grade, and any potential VAM's, you should send it in to NGC or other reputable grading service and get them to offer their 3rd party professional grading and interpretation of the VAM's associated with this coin. It should lower the volume on the debate.

 

I am not a professional grader, and there are many steps they have to jump through to get a decent grade. I'd have to say it may merit a 63, it depends on the depth of the scratches to the face, and near the nose that are concerning. Add an additional area to the surface near UNUM, and the potential of a lower grade is quite possible.

 

The dealer was more than likely playing it safe when he was saying it was near an MS-60.

 

People are hear to help answer questions, and give their opinions. I suggest that they be respected, and may not be agreeable, but grading is an art and everyone has their opinions of what the grading statndards offer.

 

Weigh the odds of it being higher than an MS-60 and what you honestly think it would come back graded as. If the difference is quite a difference, then sending the coin, you should benefit from it. Raw coins are much more open to discussion about its grade.