Are these the real thing? Newbie again

[melmcbee]

I saw an ad for www.ncmint com about 1889 Morgans.

morgans

 

I sent a question to them about are they real or fake and the response was they are real legal tender. Were these coins minted in 1889 or not? Can they mint something new and put an old date on it? I am so confused

[topsman]

They are replica coins. Way at the very bottom in small print it states that they have the word copy printed along the edge, which is required by law. As long as a replica coin has COPY stamped somewhere visible on it they can reproduce coins with any date/mint mark they want. Aside from that, proffs were never minted at Carson City, and the good quote "If it sounds to good to be true then it probably is". You would never in a million years be able to find any sort of a Morgan in that condition for $12.45.

 

But yet, for only $13 that does make a very nice display piece....

 

 

 

[Hoot]

Those are replicas. The look of the "coin" (by the photo) is a dead give-away, but there are many other sirens on the site. However, look at the "coin's" composition:

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

Composition: 100 mil .999 Pure Silver Clad Base

Weight: ~1oz. avdp

Diameter: 39MM Silver Dollar Size

Condition: Individually Struck Proof

Series: CC

Edition Limit: 2,250

Registration:.by number in ascending order

 

First of all, Morgan dollars are .9 fine silver. They are not clad.

Real Morgans are .77 troy oz. fine silver, and weigh nearly a troy ounce.

Morgan dollars are 38.1 mm diameter.

"Individually struck proof" is NOT a condition of grade (as implied), rather a "condition" of the manufacuring process.

A coin "series" is in reference to, say, Morgan dollars (1878-1921), or Jefferson nickels (1938-2004). The CC is intended to mislead you into thinking that the coins were struck at the Carson City Mint (in 1889). The reason THEY call it a "series CC" is because it is not a Mint mark on that piece.

They limit the edition because there won't be very many buyers of such junk.

A registration number is about as meaningful as .

 

The National Collector's Mint is a scummy outfit that is operated by people with no integrity who try to rip-off old ladies and tottering gentlemen by using hype and misleading propaganda.

 

You need to do yourself a big favor... Before you look at any more coins, find a local coin store or go on Amazon and buy a Red Book by R.S. Yeoman and Kenneth Bressett. The book is about $15 and worth every cent. It will answer many of your questions. Then when you decide to buy coins, only buy those certified by NGC, PCGS, and ANACS.

 

Good luck.

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

I love their definition of a coin:

 

"Coin - A piece of metal intended for use as a legal tender and stamped with marks or inscriptions which show that it was issued by an authority that guarantees its weight and purity." National Collector's Mint

 

Here's a standard numismatic definition:

 

"Coin: Metal formed into a disk of standardized weight and stamped with a standard design to enable it to circulate as money authorized by a government body. " Heritage

 

 

Hoot

[PovertyRow]

They are replica coins. Way at the very bottom in small print it states that they have the word copy printed along the edge, which is required by law.

 

Actually, an interesting thing. Yes, it is an obvious repro - but that disclaimer states "All tributes to original coins contain the "copy" designation as mandated by federal law."

 

The only time the word "tribute" occurs is near the top where it says "Announcing the National Collector's Mint tribute to the... "

 

Talk about a total sleazeball organization. The more people are made aware of this kind of slime the more they will help put them out of business by not buying from them.

 

And here I am a comic collector! I mean, sheesh!

[Leothelion]

the limited advance release of 2,250 1889 “CC” Morgan Silver Proofs .

 

Morgan silver ounce "rounds" is what it should have read and not "proofs."

 

And I thought this statement was interesting!

Morgan Silver Dollars were the most popular form of “hard cash” accepted to settle debts in the Old West. Of course, Carson City Morgan Silver Dollars haven’t been minted in 109 years,nor will you find even one in general circulation

 

Depends on what neck of the woods you live in!

 

Leo

[melmcbee]

Thanks Hoot. I knew it was too good to be true and I dont want a show piece. To me a lower grade real coin from the 1800's will always be better than a fake that is suppose to look like one.

 

Also I already have a "Redbook" on the way and I bought a subscription to NumisMedia Online FMV Price Guide. Whatever that is. I do know that as I am comparing prices, it will let me view the MS 61-70. Since I dont have your knowledge then I have to cheat. I have to go to every site that I can find prices on and ebay and see what the base price is before I bid on something. It took me awhile to figure that out but the money I lost was worth the lessen.

 

BTW, what is dmpl, cameo, proof, are these different words describing the same thing or what. If you didnt see my last post in the other forum. All of you are great

[melmcbee]

Povertyrow, I tried to find the 2 emails I received from them to post what they said to me but I already emptied my trash. First I received an email stating they were legal tender . I wrote them back and asked about the disclaimer I saw on another coin on there site which did have copy plainly on the coin, and I asked again were the Morgans real. They sent a second email stating that by law there reproduction coins had to have copy on it. I went back to the site and still didnt see the small word copy on the Morgans ( I must be blind) and almost considered purchasing it because I understood it to mean the Morgans were real but the other coin wasn't. Thankfully I came back here first just as an intuition to check my question I had posted earlier and Thankfully all of ya'll said absolutely not. I almost spent alot of money because I want a CC morgan so bad. I owe ya'll BIGTIME.

My point is I wish I could find those emails so you can see exactly how deceiving they really are.

[melmcbee]

Topsman, Where do you see copy on these coins? I have seen replicas that have it stamped for instance across the birds chest, but I still dont see it in the picture on the coin. Help

[JamminJ]

I don't see the word "copy" either.

 

Here's one possible explaination: I beleve the word "copy" must be placed somewhere on the replica, but the law does not specify which side. The company then makes two varieties, one with "copy" on the front and the other with it on the back. To add to their deception the show images together of both types displaying their blank sides.

 

Really looks like a slimey outfit to me.

 

-JamminJ

[Bruceswar]

What about Copy on the rim... that is always a good one to use... or is that not allowed anymore?

[TomB]

The word "COPY" on this token, remember, this isn't a coin, is either impressed deeply along the rim or these are stock photos of two different tokens. Each of the tokens would have the word "COPY" impressed on one side, but not the same side.

 

The Gallery Mint, a very reputable historical society mint, will sell fairly faithful copies of classic US coinage with "COPY" impressed deeply on whichever side the buyer prefers.

 

The terms you are asking about (DMPL, cameo and proof) can be found in the glossary of most better coin books and also on many useful sites such as Heritage. They mean the following-

 

DMPL=Deep Mirror Proof Like and is typically associated with the Morgan dollar series. These coins are early strikes from a pair of dies and might also have been struck with better prepared planchets. They have a deeply reflective surface, much like a proof, and you can see things reflect off of them from defined distances, such as eight inches or so.

 

Cameo=A cameo effect, like a cameo brooch, where the fields may be satiny or brilliant and the devices (such as the portrait and lettering) will look kind of sandblasted. Cameo coinage is often found on modern proofs, so look at a proof set made by the US Mint in the last 25 years and the coins will have a cameo effect.

 

Proof=Proof is a method of manufacture, not a grade. This confuses many people. A proof coin is struck from specially prepared planchets and dies and typically receives two blows to bring out the relief. Regular business strike coins do not have this care put into their manufacture.

[topsman]

Did some snooping around on ebay, and found this site's ebay registry and store. Strange how the same coin is much cheaper on Ebay than their home website. At least their ebay listings make it a bit more obvious that the coins are replica's. And it appears they do have two different stock photos, at the bottom they say:

 

"This replica proof has the word "COPY" subtly embedded on the reverse under the mint mark (not shown)."

 

N C Mint

 

Strange too how they sell several replica coins, and at least state they are selling other "scare" coins that are real from the US Mint. I don't think I could ever seriously purchase a "real" coin from a seller like that. Here's one item that caught my eye. They claim to be selling a 1917 Var. 1 STLQ for less than $60.00. Nothing wrong with that, but I highly doubt buyers will actually recieve a coin that looks anything even similar in condition to the coin in the picture. Decieving if your asking me... 1917 Var. 1 STLQ

[lclugza]

That Standing Liberty quarter is likely real but is almost surely circulated (i.e., worn) and the 1917 Standing quarter is NOT particularly valuable if it has been circulated. However, uncirculated (that is, "Mint State) 1917 Standing quarters are worth several hundred bucks ($1000 or more if it is "Full Head- Mint State 65" or a higher number that 65).

 

That quarter may be so worn that it is not worth $60. (Many circulated 1917 Type One (bare-breasted) quarters sell for less than $50.) However, the guy seems to be using a pic of a "Mint State" specimen. Fat chance getting one in Mint State from that guy! (or should I say, slim chance? or no chance? Funny how a fat chance and a slim chance are the same thing!)

[melmcbee]

Topsmen, you found the perfect example. I would think this is real because of this

Hi

This is the real thing, legal tender, minted by the US Mint

Thanks for asking

Maury (National Collector's Mint

 

@earthlink.net wrote:

 

Question about your item

 

 

 

Dear directmktg,

 

Hi, Is this bear breasted quarter a replica?

 

This is under the id history

User ID Effective Date End Date

 

directmktg Jan-11-01 Present

 

 

98.6% rating Oh I think I am going to be sick. I haven't purchased from this one but I have over 40 purchases in the last month from ebay. Oh I will be glad when that redbook gets here. I will lock my computer up until I have at least 10 more years of coin experience. See the quote yes it is legal tender from the USMINT. That is what they said in the email I received from them.

[TomB]

I agree that the SLQ they are selling is real and also agree that there is no chance in this world that that is the SLQ someone will receive. Whomever buys from them will get a significantly less attractive coin.

 

Also, their ad is full of statements that are wrong, or outright lies. Look at the following-

 

Back in 1917, there was a huge public resentment about the Standing Liberty Quarter, which revealed Lady Liberty's bare breast if observed very closely.

 

This is false as there is no historical record, in newspapers or in numismatic publications, that show an outcry about this coin.

 

The U.S. Mint was forced to recall the bare breasted quarter and then issued a new quarter with Lady Liberty's breast fully covered.

 

This is a complete fabrication as the US Mint did not recall any of these coins.

 

Suddenly, an instant rarity was created!

 

Again, a complete falsehood as these are very common coins.

 

Sellers like this make me want to vomit.

[lclugza]

Over ten million of the quarters with bare breast were made, so it's not rare (except for 1916s and Mint State coins). This guy probably bought a bunch of badly worn 1917s and is trying to sell them on Ebay to novice collectors at double or triple his buying price. And he does not have a grade stated, yet uses a pic of a Mint State coin (like I said before, fat chance getting one from him).

[Morgannut]

I know that you weren't serious about these being real. I just don't understand why this isn't mail fraud when granny buys them unknowingly for the grandkids.

 

If they're not stamped replica's or copy somewhere, why doesn't the Treasury 's Secret Service arrest everybody again and again until they cut it out?