$10 gold indian

[leprecoin]

hi,

Anyone like to help and grade this ?

Im aware grading from pics is not accurate and even redicioulus to some degree,

yet I will love a word of advise....

[jom]

I don't know if it is ridiculous or not but your pictures really don't help much. The last shot of the reverse there makes if very difficult to see the abrasions and/or if there is wear. You might want to tweak down the red channel on that picture just a bit.

 

A word of help: Don't take picture with a RED background. Try using black.

 

jom

[leprecoin]

thx jom,

I didnt take the pictures myself nor the coin in my possetion.

the owner send me those pictures,

which don't help me much more then he would just say... "nice coin"

what i find suspicious, is that it he show me much better pic of the observe then the reserve like he's hiding somthing...

but the luster do look pretty impresive in the last pic that im just cluless.

 

 

from my experance, I find my $40 refurbished HP simplest scanner

to give me best results.

 

I use X600 for most coins, and 1200 for some unique ones that require tiny details that the nacked eye wont catch . I dont use any background, or adobe filters. accept optimizing for smaller file to upload.

 

the main problem with it is that it wont catch luster,

and for myself even more importent....

It wont catch cleaning marks in many cases.

and somtime will do the oposite....

heres a sample:

by the end of the "librety" and across the hair there's whats seems to be a nasty scrach... yet when you look at coin it berelly showes and will take some effort to even find it

 

[jom]

If you are telling me you can hide marks by changing the lighting you are preaching to the choir. Although, it would be difficult to set up correctly it CAN be done. I once took several shots of a Buffalo nickel of mine and in one you can see a hairline and the other you can't but overall the coin looks the same. Weird.

 

Anyway, my suggestion to you is find ANOTHER $10 Indian to buy...one that is certified by PCGS or NGC. The 12-P is not as common as a 26 or 32 but it is far from being rare. Plus, the 12-P along with the 11, 13 and 15 are some of the nicest made $10s around. With a little searching you can pick up some wonderfully colored pieces in those dates in grades as low as AU58....especially the 11-P. Take your time finding the right piece. You won't be disappointed.

 

jom

[leprecoin]

I have few ngc pcgs and anacs but none in raw as I dont feel comfortable/experianced enough to take the risk and end up with a replica.

 

I actually hate that fact as I dont even know how the stars on the rim should look like and wish NGC could raise the coin above the main slab or make it kinda Z shape or even just use clear insert or whatever design that will actually show the rim as well

 

also I see most $10 that selling on Ebay are NTC but as the auction price always end up few grades under the present value and im not much of beliver in miricules I never bought any. do you have any experiance with them ?

 

and if anyone would put his $ on the one pictured at the top ...

what would you think is grade or value ?

[jtryka]

I am a novice at Indian eagles compared to Jom, but the 1912 pictured seems quite similar to my example which is an MS-62. It's very hard to tell though based on those photos. Nothing jumps out at me as far as it being a fake, though that's hard to tell from a photo too. In either case, it's a fairly common date (and as Jom said, not as common as the 26 or 32, but pretty common nonetheless), so you might just be better off looking for a nice certified example, at least until you feel comfortable enough with your grading and authentication skills that you could buy a raw coin. I have only purchased one raw indian, and it worked out all right, but it's not for the inexperienced or faint of heart. I have not personally bought or owned an NTC certified coin, but I have seen enough of them to believe they routinely overgrade 1-3 points. Given that, they may also be sloppy on their standards for body bags adding to the risk. I would generally avoid them, though as I have often said, there are hidden gems in all sorts of holders.

 

Good luck!

[jom]

leprecoin: You've now had two of us tell you pretty much the same thing. If you are relatively new at collecting coins you really should avoid raw and any coins NOT graded by PCGS, NGC and ANACS. Even with ANACS you might want to be careful as all the really good ANACS coins have been picked over and sent to the "big two".

 

As to NTC let me tell you a story. Last December I sold some Saints and $2.5 Indians I had. I had this one beautiful 23-D I sold to this woman on Ebay. She happened to live in my area so I suggest we meet up at a local Starbucks so I could deliver the coin to her so to avoid postage. It was readily apparent that she was very much a novice at buying coins. She was doing it as an "investment". I thought to myself "uh...oh". I'd been through that myself so I tried (very hard mind you) to tell her how much trouble you can get into buying coins as a novice. Especially GOLD! I told her in no uncertain terms if you have buy now buy ONLY PCGS and NGC. She was the wife of a "well to do" dentist and the money seemed to be burning a hold in her purse.

 

Well a couple of months past I thought to check to see if she had bought any other coins. Going thru the "feedback" route I found her buy/sells on Ebay and it turned out she didn't listen to me at all. After our sale she had spent around $50k on better dated Saints such as the 24-S and other mint-marked dates from the 1920s (ask jtryka how difficult these dates are). Every one she bought was at least MS63. That's all well and good but ALL the coins she had bought were NTC graded! "uh...oh"...again. The sales were still on Ebay but all the pictures had been taken down unfortunately so I wasn't able to SEE the coins. However I can guess that she won't get 50 cents on the dollar when she sells those. She MIGHT have got lucky on one...I don't know...but if the coin WAS correctly graded I can assure you the coin would have long since been sent to PCGS. I felt pretty bad but have since come to the conclusion people will never learn unless they GO THRU the experience of screwing up. I did.....

 

jom

[jtryka]

Jom, that is such a sad story!!!! And yes, I can fully attest at how hard it is to find the branch mint Saints of the 1920s. And even if the coins are in slabs from PCGS and NGC, there may still be problems. I was at the Portland ANA last winter and saw a 26-S in a PCGS MS-63 slab with three large, noticable gashes across Liberty's torso, and I thought I might bid MS-62 money for it, but unfortunately it went for strong MS-63 money! Someone has to be disappointed in that deal. Even my own 25-S (which is an extremely tough date) is graded AU-58 by NGC, but I'm convinced it's been cleaned. Sometimes it works out, as the rarity of the coin might supercede the problems, but sometimes it doesn't. If these were real problem coins in NTC holders, they might even have been altered or fake for all I know. But generally there is a reason the coins are held in second-tier (or maybe third-tier in this case) holders. On a common date, problems are hard to overlook, and since there are so many already slabbed in high grade, it can make a much bigger percentage loss on value given the lower starting point. Either way, when collecting gold, it's best to learn all you can, especially from other's experiences, to avoid the harsh lessons yourself. By the way leprecoin, have you bought David Akers' book on 20th century gold coins? If not, you should, it's a necessity for collecting Saints and Indians alike.

[jom]

have you bought David Akers' book on 20th century gold coins? If not, you should, it's a necessity for collecting Saints and Indians alike.

 

I take it you liked the book then. Although, those series need an update badly...but I'm not sure there would be a market for such a book. An article possibly....hmmm....

 

jom