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Question on return privileges

Started by Rayman311,

61 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen/without a return privilege, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

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AnkurJ

AnkurJ

Posted
Posted
One other thing I want to point out. I recently sent a 4 figure bust quarter to a collector on approval. The coin was also consigned to me. I spoke to the consignor, and after recieving a list of refernces from the collector, sent the coin on approval.

 

Since Rayman is fairly new, he did not have references. And as I stated before, it was not my coin to dictate a return policy. However the dealer who owns it said he would have no problem with it had the coin not sold.

 

Ankur

 

Something to keep in mind - The coins you take on consignment (as well as their prices and shipping and/or return policies) reflect upon you and your reputation, not that of the owner.

 

I know some dealers who will take just about anything on consignment, at just about any price, figuring that there's no downside - that they will either make a profit on the coin or eventually return it to the consignor.

 

But there is downside - to the financial well being.of the dealer's clients, as well as to the.dealer's reputation. And because of that, some dealers are careful regarding what coins they will accept on consignment and at what price levels.

 

Another interest to consider is that of the consignor. A consignor should be careful about what dealers they consign to and make certain that the terms of the consignment agreement are spelled out clearly.

 

Not all dealers give the coins a legitimate chance at being sold, or if sold, at a reasonable markup over the consigned price. Not all dealers pay the consignor within a reasonable amount of time once the coin is sold. And so on.

 

. And a consignor should also make certain that both parties know the terms of the consignment agreement and that there are no bad surprises, while the coin is beig offered or once it's been sold.

 

Mark,

I agree. This was the ONLY instance where I put a coin on my site where I did not keep possesion of it. That was a mistake, and it will not happen again. All of the other coins on my site, are in my possesion. In regards to price, it was very fair in my opinion and according to past sales.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
One other thing I want to point out. I recently sent a 4 figure bust quarter to a collector on approval. The coin was also consigned to me. I spoke to the consignor, and after recieving a list of refernces from the collector, sent the coin on approval.

 

Since Rayman is fairly new, he did not have references. And as I stated before, it was not my coin to dictate a return policy. However the dealer who owns it said he would have no problem with it had the coin not sold.

 

Ankur

 

Something to keep in mind - The coins you take on consignment (as well as their prices and shipping and/or return policies) reflect upon you and your reputation, not that of the owner.

 

I know some dealers who will take just about anything on consignment, at just about any price, figuring that there's no downside - that they will either make a profit on the coin or eventually return it to the consignor.

 

But there is downside - to the financial well being.of the dealer's clients, as well as to the.dealer's reputation. And because of that, some dealers are careful regarding what coins they will accept on consignment and at what price levels.

 

Another interest to consider is that of the consignor. A consignor should be careful about what dealers they consign to and make certain that the terms of the consignment agreement are spelled out clearly.

 

Not all dealers give the coins a legitimate chance at being sold, or if sold, at a reasonable markup over the consigned price. Not all dealers pay the consignor within a reasonable amount of time once the coin is sold. And so on.

 

. And a consignor should also make certain that both parties know the terms of the consignment agreement and that there are no bad surprises, while the coin is beig offered or once it's been sold.

 

Mark,

I agree. This was the ONLY instance where I put a coin on my site where I did not keep possesion of it. That was a mistake, and it will not happen again. All of the other coins on my site, are in my possesion.

 

Ankur, I'm not sure it's necessarily a mistake to take a coin on consignment without having possession of it - actually, I wouldn't even call that a consignment.

 

I think it can be done and work, under the right circumstances and with proper communication. For example, on occasion, by agreement, another dealer will list one of my coins on their site, too. We just need to be careful and make sure to communicate with one another if someone wants to view the coin, etc.

 

By the way, I think this thread has turned out to be excellent and quite informative. (thumbs u

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

Mark,

Dealers can operate how they feel, but the point is, if a dealer sells to a buyer at a price that leads them to decide not to offer a return policy when it other cases, they do, I consider that to be very inconsistent. As a buyer I would never agree to that if such a condition were then put on the transaction, I would just walk away, sight seen or unseen, not too return. I want to work with a seller that will always back their product, and not sell to me if they can't. There has to be trust and thus, a consistent policy, between a seller and I for me to form a long-term working arrangement to buy from a seller. JMHO.

 

Best, HT

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

Mark,

Dealers can operate how they feel, but the point is, if a dealer sells to a buyer at a price that leads them to decide not to offer a return policy when it other cases, they do, I consider that to be very inconsistent. As a buyer I would never agree to that if such a condition were then put on the transaction, I would just walk away, sight seen or unseen, not too return. I want to work with a seller that will always back their product, and not sell to me if they can't. There has to be trust and thus, a consistent policy, between a seller and I for me to form a long-term working arrangement to buy from a seller. JMHO.

 

Best, HT

 

That's fine and understandable if such arrangements aren't for you. But some buyers want to do things that way and some sellers accommodate them. I don't understand why you would think less of a dealer who does that.

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copper toning

copper toning

Posted
Posted

The same thread is going on ATS. Someone posted that it was poor taste for a dealer to out a client and details on a public forum.

 

Mark, Tom how do you feel about that decision?

 

Potential buyers how about you?

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted
The same thread is going on ATS. Someone posted that it was poor taste for a dealer to out a client and details on a public forum.

 

Mark, Tom how do you feel about that decision?

 

Potential buyers how about you?

 

Well, with respect to this thread, the topic was started by the potential client as a hypothetical and then the seller (pseudo-dealer; quasi-dealer; wannabe-dealer; whatever you want to insert) added more information. In this case the potential client did nothing wrong, in my opinion, and the seller entered into the discussion armed with more knowledge than the other participants, save perhaps for the potential client. I have no issues with how this thread has unfolded to this point.

 

As for a dealer sharing details regarding a client or potential client on a public board while in a dispute with that client or potential client, then that gets dicey. It would largely depend upon who brought up what and when, but I would rather keep these private if I am involved. I have seen it on the PCGS boards at least twice with larger firms sharing client information and I thought it highly unprofessional and inappropriate. The most recent example was just in the last two weeks or so and the thread was pulled by PCGS, but I think it was pulled by PCGS as a favor to the firm and not because of the details provided.

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted

The "dealer" in this scenario gets into more scrapes, disputes, and misunderstandings than any other 10 people, combined. It always ends in threads with edited posts, etc. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
The same thread is going on ATS. Someone posted that it was poor taste for a dealer to out a client and details on a public forum.

 

Mark, Tom how do you feel about that decision?

 

Potential buyers how about you?

 

Well, with respect to this thread, the topic was started by the potential client as a hypothetical and then the seller (pseudo-dealer; quasi-dealer; wannabe-dealer; whatever you want to insert) added more information. In this case the potential client did nothing wrong, in my opinion, and the seller entered into the discussion armed with more knowledge than the other participants, save perhaps for the potential client. I have no issues with how this thread has unfolded to this point.

 

As for a dealer sharing details regarding a client or potential client on a public board while in a dispute with that client or potential client, then that gets dicey. It would largely depend upon who brought up what and when, but I would rather keep these private if I am involved. I have seen it on the PCGS boards at least twice with larger firms sharing client information and I thought it highly unprofessional and inappropriate. The most recent example was just in the last two weeks or so and the thread was pulled by PCGS, but I think it was pulled by PCGS as a favor to the firm and not because of the details provided.

 

....I always found it to be unfortunate that ethical behavior is not a genetic trait in all humans.....GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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mkman123

mkman123

Posted
Posted

I hope ankur doesn't get banned ats....he worked hard getting let back recently!

 

Now I'd like to see mark feld allowed back......maybe someone could tell DW to go visit feldini at a show and give him a hug or something and let bygones be bygones or DW getting rwb autograph from his new book

 

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted
I hope ankur doesn't get banned ats....he worked hard getting let back recently!

 

Now I'd like to see mark feld allowed back......maybe someone could tell DW to go visit feldini at a show and give him a hug or something and let bygones be bygones or DW getting rwb autograph from his new book

I also hope he does not get banned. The entertainment potential with him there is unlimited. :D

 

Mark and Don Willis appeared to be on very good terms at FUN. Mark introduced me to Don. ;)

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

Mark,

Dealers can operate how they feel, but the point is, if a dealer sells to a buyer at a price that leads them to decide not to offer a return policy when it other cases, they do, I consider that to be very inconsistent. As a buyer I would never agree to that if such a condition were then put on the transaction, I would just walk away, sight seen or unseen, not too return. I want to work with a seller that will always back their product, and not sell to me if they can't. There has to be trust and thus, a consistent policy, between a seller and I for me to form a long-term working arrangement to buy from a seller. JMHO.

 

Best, HT

 

That's fine and understandable if such arrangements aren't for you. But some buyers want to do things that way and some sellers accommodate them. I don't understand why you would think less of a dealer who does that.

 

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

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copper toning

copper toning

Posted
Posted

 

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

Right now the niners grade= AG3 and no CAC

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

Unless I can see the coin in person, I would need a return privilege or I would pass in most cases. Forty eight hours is enough time for me; of the few coins that I have returned, most were shipped back the same day. Only on one occasion did it take me longer when I consulted with a local dealer.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted

I would buy a coin as is with no returns, but it would have to be slabbed and due to my naivety, probably wth a "bean". To me, the key factor is "policy". The time for me to address returns is before the coin ships. The only exception to this would involve a counterfeit, since to me, the slab assumes authenticity as is. Internet / mail order will always have it's pitfalls.....but I've had good luck over the years.....I've returned one item that eventually slabbed out as better than what it was sold to me as :boo: and 2 items returned to me for defects that I honestly missed. I know many people who don't offer returns for encapsulated items, but I always have......the slab distorts certain conditions. GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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USMoneylover

USMoneylover

Posted
Posted

Seems like people should treat others how they wish to be treated. If I buy a coin, I would like a 7 day return period(even if I know its a keeper or not in 10 sec.) and If I don't like the coin, I'll pay the return shipping.

This is my return policy.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

Right now the niners grade= AG3 and no CAC

 

I'd put that at G6 but there is still a half to play, let's see if they make adjustments at half time......

 

Best, HT

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I'd put that at G6 but there is still a half to play, let's see if they make adjustments at half time......

 

In an odd contradiction to the coin market, they need to get "doctored" in a hurry or they'll end up in a body bag.

 

lol

 

jom

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
I'd put that at G6 but there is still a half to play, let's see if they make adjustments at half time......

 

In an odd contradiction to the coin market, they need to get "doctored" in a hurry or they'll end up in a body bag.

 

lol

 

jom

 

 

:roflmao:

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Rayman311

Rayman311

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen/without a return privilege, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

I concur. I could certainly see where two parties could agree to such terms and it become the agreed arrangement.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

Mark,

Dealers can operate how they feel, but the point is, if a dealer sells to a buyer at a price that leads them to decide not to offer a return policy when it other cases, they do, I consider that to be very inconsistent. As a buyer I would never agree to that if such a condition were then put on the transaction, I would just walk away, sight seen or unseen, not too return. I want to work with a seller that will always back their product, and not sell to me if they can't. There has to be trust and thus, a consistent policy, between a seller and I for me to form a long-term working arrangement to buy from a seller. JMHO.

 

Best, HT

 

That's fine and understandable if such arrangements aren't for you. But some buyers want to do things that way and some sellers accommodate them. I don't understand why you would think less of a dealer who does that.

 

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

You indicated that customer service, consistency and trust would be lacking in situations where dealers sold without a return privilege. And that you would never buy from them.

 

Hopefully you can easily understand what caused me to conclude that you thought less of such sellers.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

Right now the niners grade= AG3 and no CAC

 

You indicated that customer service, consistency and trust would be lacking in situations where dealers sold without a return privilege. And that you would never buy from them.

 

Hopefully you can easily understand what caused me to conclude that you thought less of such sellers.

 

I have been accused on these boards of putting words into folks mouths. I don't think less of this dealer and never said I did. I simply stated I would not deal with someone that does not have the same views as I for customer service.

 

Best, HT

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

Right now the niners grade= AG3 and no CAC

 

You indicated that customer service, consistency and trust would be lacking in situations where dealers sold without a return privilege. And that you would never buy from them.

 

Hopefully you can easily understand what caused me to conclude that you thought less of such sellers.

 

I have been accused on these boards of putting words into folks mouths. I don't think less of this dealer and never said I did. I simply stated I would not deal with someone that does not have the same views as I for customer service.

 

Best, HT

 

So, among other things, "trust" would be lacking and you would never buy from him, but you don't think less of him. Got it. ;)

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted
Also, if you chisel on the price, you can more likely expect that deal to come with no return privilege.

 

 

This should make no difference with a return privilege. I would walk away if this was given as a no return policy reason.

 

I agree. I would not enter into the deal under these circumstances.

 

To me, if you want the absolute lowest price, it comes with a trade off. I don't want to see the coin back. You own it.

 

I like what Mr. Bush and Mr. Feld note about return policy. All you are doing here Mr. Marguli is convincing me why I would never buy from you. It is ALL about customer service all the time in every way. You don't offer a return policy because because a buyer and you agree to a price that is too low? Puhlease matey (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

I happen to think that Greg's point is perfectly valid and know many sellers (both collectors and dealers) who operate that way.

 

In some instances, the primary concern of the buyer is price, and if he can obtain a better price by agreeing to buy the coin sight-unseen, there's nothing wrong with that or the dealer who offers it.

 

Mark,

Dealers can operate how they feel, but the point is, if a dealer sells to a buyer at a price that leads them to decide not to offer a return policy when it other cases, they do, I consider that to be very inconsistent. As a buyer I would never agree to that if such a condition were then put on the transaction, I would just walk away, sight seen or unseen, not too return. I want to work with a seller that will always back their product, and not sell to me if they can't. There has to be trust and thus, a consistent policy, between a seller and I for me to form a long-term working arrangement to buy from a seller. JMHO.

 

Best, HT

 

That's fine and understandable if such arrangements aren't for you. But some buyers want to do things that way and some sellers accommodate them. I don't understand why you would think less of a dealer who does that.

 

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

You indicated that customer service, consistency and trust would be lacking in situations where dealers sold without a return privilege. And that you would never buy from them.

 

Hopefully you can easily understand what caused me to conclude that you thought less of such sellers.

 

What is the record for most number of embedded quotes? It is getting hard to read the earliest ones...

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

I have offered returns within reason, and have not yet been in the situation where I have stiffed a customer with a coin which is a problem for them. I know many dealers though who sell raw coins without any return privileges which is contrary to most standards of business ethics.

 

Communication is the key, if you contact a dealer or are contacted by a customer on a problem and there is no interest in making good for a significant error that neither parties were aware of until the raw coin was submitted to the experts (grading services), then it could be taken to the next higher level or you may need to move on with doing business with unresponsive or unaccountable parties.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

Mark,

I never used those terms 'think less of a seller'. I agree that such arrangements aren't for me as a seller or when/if I deal. Go 'Niners. (thumbs u

 

 

Right now the niners grade= AG3 and no CAC

 

You indicated that customer service, consistency and trust would be lacking in situations where dealers sold without a return privilege. And that you would never buy from them.

 

Hopefully you can easily understand what caused me to conclude that you thought less of such sellers.

 

I have been accused on these boards of putting words into folks mouths. I don't think less of this dealer and never said I did. I simply stated I would not deal with someone that does not have the same views as I for customer service.

 

Best, HT

 

So, among other things, "trust" would be lacking and you would never buy from him, but you don't think less of him. Got it. ;)

 

 

I will plead the fifth.... (shrug)

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