Newp! Controversial Neon Monster Bust Half!

[mumu]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

Good analysis. Can you now read my palm and tell me why everyone of my posts is deemed conflictive?

[MarkFeld]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

I agree. Greg does not make his points delicately, and consequently, some readers are put off. But I saw no personal attack in what he posted and I believe hat what he said was accurate.

[Marauderrt10-migration]

Lance when it was bought and sold by me it had no CAC. I had plans to bring it to the CAC building at some point but was offered a very fair price for the coin so I sold it.

 

Is it possible to tell us the "time vs. price/value" of this coin?

 

I'm curious what the coin was trading for before and after the sticker.

 

jom

I purchased it in late 2009 for 2800 and sold it for $3100 in 2011. After that I don't know.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Well said MJ. (thumbs u

 

Where I took issue with gmarguli's post is where he becomes personal and judgemental towards many numismatists:

 

The definition of the word "personal" means "of, relating to, or affecting a particular person."

 

gmarguli's comment was a general comment, directed at no one in particular, and thus, by definition, could not have been "personal."

 

It is therefore a mistake to take general comments aimed at no specific individual or group of individuals personally.

 

This hobby is filled with clueless collectors and many clueless dealers. People who have decided that the TPG and now Stickerers can do the job for them and they will just buy what looks pretty. Few people try to learn anything anymore and then when something that should be well known gets pointed out to them they are shocked.

 

I interpret this to mean that apparently gmarguli has met most of the collectors and dealers in numismatics so that he, as a 'expert' knows that only 'few people try to learn anything anymore'. Again, I take issue with those that think they can judge everyone else from a high podium. Having said that, if gmarguli had phrased it better, what he says has some constructive points, but he made it personal and I stand by my criticism of his post.

 

Your interpretation is wrong. It's not what gmarguli said...at all.

 

That is your take RockMy, my take is different and I find gmarguli's proclamation offensive in the approach he took. He may in part be correct in his assessment, but it is the delivery that is in my view incorrect. He sounds like a high priest talking down to the masses to tell them they don't know what they are doing. Sorry mate, I don't like it and don't agree with it and I stand by my criticism of it. There are much better ways to say things. I give more credit to folks and their decisions and don't claim I know more than they do, you will never hear me call anyone 'clueless' here, sensu stricto, or sensu lato.

 

Best, HT

 

Sorry, but your take is wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion: you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

gmarguli did not call anyone here clueless, strictly OR broadly.

 

gmarguli did not "claim to know more than others."

 

These are projections you have made that aren't true. He "sounds" that way, because that is how you have filtered it through your own perspective, instead of simply considering the merit of what he actually said.

 

In other words, you don't like his "tone."

 

I know you find gmarguli's proclamation offensive, because you internalized it and made it personal, even though it was a generic statement aimed at no one in particular. You look at it emotionally, not objectively. This is an error.

 

If you insist on being offended by the way people express themselves, rather than on the substance of what they're saying, you will be. It is inevitable.

[MarkFeld]

Lance when it was bought and sold by me it had no CAC. I had plans to bring it to the CAC building at some point but was offered a very fair price for the coin so I sold it.

 

Is it possible to tell us the "time vs. price/value" of this coin?

 

I'm curious what the coin was trading for before and after the sticker.

 

jom

 

You appear to have as significant of a fixation on gold stickers as anyone I have seen post. Get over it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

Good analysis. Can you now read my palm and tell me why everyone of my posts is deemed conflictive?

 

Sure...you "talk" the same way that I do: straightforward and without pulling any punches. Here, as in life, many people are intimidated and off-put by people who speak straightforwardly, without couching their comments in ingratiating terms and phrases like "in my humble opinion" and so forth.

 

Many people see forthrightness, especially if there is some sort of disagreement being discussed, as "rude", "abrupt", and even "insulting" and "hostile."

 

It is what it is, and I don't recommend people alter how they express themselves if their motives aren't truly meant to be hostile and insulting. I appreciate forthrightness, personally, and prefer it to dissembling.

 

[MJ]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

I agree. Greg does not make his points delicately, and consequently, some readers are put off. But I saw no personal attack in what he posted and I believe hat what he said was accurate.

 

I interpreted it as normal Greg bedside manner and didn't see it as offensive or personal. That's how I read it anyways. He tends to make good points. MJ

[RockMyAmadeus]

Who owned it when it was offered to Ankur for $900 and $1200 ? I think that was back in 2008 or 2009?

 

It would be cool to see the full Provenance (sp?) list (using forum names to maintain proper privacy of course)

 

I think i recall that Dimefreak owned this as well?

 

So we have Marauderrt10 and Dimefreak as previous owners.

 

This coin has certainly changed hands a lot as I am guessing at least 4 owners since 2009. About 1 new owner every year.

 

Always makes me wonder, if coins are so great why are they always changing hands? When I find a coin I love, I keep it in my collection. You'd have to pry it out of my dead cold fingers.

 

I was wondering that also since it only realized a 10% profit.

there are more quality coins worth chasing. my weakness is patterns so it had to go if I could rationalize spending 5 figures on a pattern

 

Patterns are dreamy...

[jom]

You appear to have as significant of a fixation on gold stickers as anyone I have seen post. Get over it.

 

THAT is the most significant overstatement I've ever read!

 

jom

[jom]

Lance when it was bought and sold by me it had no CAC. I had plans to bring it to the CAC building at some point but was offered a very fair price for the coin so I sold it.

 

Is it possible to tell us the "time vs. price/value" of this coin?

 

I'm curious what the coin was trading for before and after the sticker.

 

jom

I purchased it in late 2009 for 2800 and sold it for $3100 in 2011. After that I don't know.

 

Thanks for that...it helps back up what Mark mentioned above.

 

jom

[newprepper]

If this thread keeps going, they might just pin it to the top

[comicdonna]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

I agree. Greg does not make his points delicately, and consequently, some readers are put off. But I saw no personal attack in what he posted and I believe hat what he said was accurate.

 

I interpreted it as normal Greg bedside manner and didn't see it as offensive or personal. That's how I read it anyways. He tends to make good points. MJ

It would appear, that I overreacted to his post. Even Arch said, he is only slightly evil.

 

I will learn more about the hobby over time. Until then, I will use alternative tools to help decide which coin is best for me.

[jerseycat10]

[AnkurJ]

This thread seems to have diverged from the coin in question. So I have obtained a second helping of popcorn.

[MarkFeld]

Value of a typical AU53 Capped Bust Half Dollar: $400

 

Value of a gold bean, wildly/uniquely toned example: $3800

 

(added) Value to Ankur's fame and reputation: Priceless

 

 

[jerseycat10]

Value of a typical AU53 Capped Bust Half Dollar: $400

 

Value of a gold bean, wildly/uniquely toned example: $3800

 

(added) Value to Ankur's fame and reputation: Priceless

 

 

 

Via this fiasco, Mark has unwittingly (or wittingly) launched a new numismatic phenomenon:

 

Extreme Makeover: Numismatic Edition.

 

Episode 1: AnkurJ, a personable, CAC-wielding high-roller, is introduced to a radioactive CBH that has the coin-collecting community abuzz. Watch his numismatic stock skyrocket on tonights premiere episode.

[MarkFeld]

Value of a typical AU53 Capped Bust Half Dollar: $400

 

Value of a gold bean, wildly/uniquely toned example: $3800

 

(added) Value to Ankur's fame and reputation: Priceless

 

 

 

Via this fiasco, Mark has unwittingly (or wittingly) launched a new numismatic phenomenon:

 

Extreme Makeover: Numismatic Edition.

 

Episode 1: AnkurJ, a personable, CAC-wielding high-roller, is introduced to a radioactive CBH that has the coin-collecting community abuzz. Watch his numismatic stock skyrocket on tonights premiere episode.

 

Not bad, but it's hardly a fiasco.

[AnkurJ]

 

Autographs after the show!

[gmarguli]

 

Autographs after the show!

 

Sorry, we only collect PSA/DNA certified autographs.

[newprepper]

Value of a typical AU53 Capped Bust Half Dollar: $400

 

Value of a gold bean, wildly/uniquely toned example: $3800

 

(added) Value to Ankur's fame and reputation: Priceless

 

 

 

infamy instead of fame........haha

[newprepper]

This thread seems to have diverged from the coin in question. So I have obtained a second helping of popcorn.

 

I'm sharing my drink if you are sharing the popcorn

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok....what did I miss over the last 12 pages

[physics-fan3.14]

Ok....what did I miss over the last 12 pages

 

Not much.

[Hard Times]

Wow, tough crowd.

 

This hobby is filled with clueless collectors and many clueless dealers. People who have decided that the TPG and now Stickerers can do the job for them and they will just buy what looks pretty. Few people try to learn anything anymore and then when something that should be well known gets pointed out to them they are shocked.

 

RockMy, if this is not pontificating, then there is no pope. If this is not a proclamation against many in the 'hobby', then I don't know what is. I don't feel that anyone has any buisness making such judgements and gmarguli certainly does not know what most people in the hobby are thinking such that he can deem them clueless. That is the point I am making and will continue to stand by it and the fact that there are better ways to say the same thing without sounding offensive to some. James Early did not get my sarcasm in my post he responded to and you seem to back gmarguli with his negative approach here, that is your buisness. I personally believe in the intelligence of most folks in the hobby and their willingness to learn more and don't believe most to be clueless. Not everyone can know as much as someone like John Albanese whose opinions about coin quality is held in very high esteem. I like Ankur's argument about why to buy CAC stickered coins - let's see how those that don't have CAC stickered coins do when it is time to sell. That pretty much will be the final test.

 

In fact, I think CAC is one of the best things to happen to numismatics since I got involved. I am probably second to only Ankur in that belief. Levels the playing field and I refer you to MJ's posts with respect to that issue. This opinion of mine comes from viewing several thousand CACed coins and non-CACed coins in the past couple years. (thumbs u

 

Yabba, dabba, do, HT

[MarkFeld]

Wow, tough crowd.

 

This hobby is filled with clueless collectors and many clueless dealers. People who have decided that the TPG and now Stickerers can do the job for them and they will just buy what looks pretty. Few people try to learn anything anymore and then when something that should be well known gets pointed out to them they are shocked.

 

RockMy, if this is not pontificating, then there is no pope. If this is not a proclamation against many in the 'hobby', then I don't know what is. I don't feel that anyone has any buisness making such judgements and gmarguli certainly does not know what most people in the hobby are thinking such that he can deem them clueless. That is the point I am making and will continue to stand by it and the fact that there are better ways to say the same thing without sounding offensive to some. James Early did not get my sarcasm in my post he responded to and you seem to back gmarguli with his negative approach here, that is your buisness. I personally believe in the intelligence of most folks in the hobby and their willingness to learn more and don't believe most to be clueless. Not everyone can know as much as someone like John Albanese whose opinions about coin quality is held in very high esteem. I like Ankur's argument about why to buy CAC stickered coins - let's see how those that don't have CAC stickered coins do when it is time to sell. That pretty much will be the final test.

 

In fact, I think CAC is one of the best things to happen to numismatics since I got involved. I am probably second to only Ankur in that belief. Levels the playing field and I refer you to MJ's posts with respect to that issue. This opinion of mine comes from viewing several thousand CACed coins and non-CACed coins in the past couple years. (thumbs u

 

Yabba, dabba, do, HT

 

Al, when making his remarks, Greg did not refer to "most" in the hobby. But you have turned his words into "most" and are thereby taking offense with something he never said.

 

I agree with him that the hobby is "filled" with "clueless" people. But that is not the same as saying "most" people in the hobby are clueless.

 

And if you need proof of how widespread the cluelessness is, simply look at all of the bidders on EBay who pursue counterfeits, some of which are laughable. And countless others who bid way too much on harshly cleaned or polished or ruined and/or blatantly AT coins. And buyers of horribly overpriced coins via TV, radio and magazine ads.

 

Like it (and the delivery of his message) or not, Greg was correct.

[James_OldeTowne]

This hobby is filled with clueless collectors and many clueless dealers. People who have decided that the TPG and now Stickerers can do the job for them and they will just buy what looks pretty. Few people try to learn anything anymore and then when something that should be well known gets pointed out to them they are shocked.

RockMy, if this is not pontificating, then there is no pope. If this is not a proclamation against many in the 'hobby', then I don't know what is. I don't feel that anyone has any buisness making such judgements and gmarguli certainly does not know what most people in the hobby are thinking such that he can deem them clueless. That is the point I am making and will continue to stand by it and the fact that there are better ways to say the same thing without sounding offensive to some. James Early did not get my sarcasm in my post he responded to and you seem to back gmarguli with his negative approach here, that is your buisness. I personally believe in the intelligence of most folks in the hobby and their willingness to learn more and don't believe most to be clueless. Not everyone can know as much as someone like John Albanese whose opinions about coin quality is held in very high esteem. I like Ankur's argument about why to buy CAC stickered coins - let's see how those that don't have CAC stickered coins do when it is time to sell. That pretty much will be the final test.

 

In fact, I think CAC is one of the best things to happen to numismatics since I got involved. I am probably second to only Ankur in that belief. Levels the playing field and I refer you to MJ's posts with respect to that issue. This opinion of mine comes from viewing several thousand CACed coins and non-CACed coins in the past couple years. (thumbs u

 

Yabba, dabba, do, HT

It just seems like your lengthy responses indicate some sort of lingering, festering bitterness toward any opinions that don't mimic your own. Why?? This is supposed to be fun, isn't it?!

 

I think that if you plan to read and post on an open forum like this one, an open mind might serve well. EXPECT to be offended once in a while, and then just move on, since many opinions will not coincide with yours. Much of what you post on the boards is valuable and I usually enjoy reading what you have to say, but I doubt that "many" of the people whom you claim were "offended" by gmarguli's post really need or want you to come to their defense.

 

Basically, and I'm sorry to say this, that "point that you are making and will continue to stand by" is one that almost nobody cares about.

 

What we DO care about is name-calling, bashing Ankur and CAC, and annoying Mark Feld . Join us in our happy pursuits !

[mumu]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

Good analysis. Can you now read my palm and tell me why everyone of my posts is deemed conflictive?

 

Sure...you "talk" the same way that I do: straightforward and without pulling any punches. Here, as in life, many people are intimidated and off-put by people who speak straightforwardly, without couching their comments in ingratiating terms and phrases like "in my humble opinion" and so forth.

 

Many people see forthrightness, especially if there is some sort of disagreement being discussed, as "rude", "abrupt", and even "insulting" and "hostile."

 

It is what it is, and I don't recommend people alter how they express themselves if their motives aren't truly meant to be hostile and insulting. I appreciate forthrightness, personally, and prefer it to dissembling.

 

Thanks. It is my humble opinion, that terms such as "in my humble opinion", should be assumed by the listener/reader any time anyone says/posts anything anywhere. Even with "facts, there is always an opinion as to which facts are the correct ones.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Wow, tough crowd.

 

This hobby is filled with clueless collectors and many clueless dealers. People who have decided that the TPG and now Stickerers can do the job for them and they will just buy what looks pretty. Few people try to learn anything anymore and then when something that should be well known gets pointed out to them they are shocked.

 

RockMy, if this is not pontificating, then there is no pope. If this is not a proclamation against many in the 'hobby', then I don't know what is. I don't feel that anyone has any buisness making such judgements and gmarguli certainly does not know what most people in the hobby are thinking such that he can deem them clueless. That is the point I am making and will continue to stand by it and the fact that there are better ways to say the same thing without sounding offensive to some. James Early did not get my sarcasm in my post he responded to and you seem to back gmarguli with his negative approach here, that is your buisness. I personally believe in the intelligence of most folks in the hobby and their willingness to learn more and don't believe most to be clueless. Not everyone can know as much as someone like John Albanese whose opinions about coin quality is held in very high esteem. I like Ankur's argument about why to buy CAC stickered coins - let's see how those that don't have CAC stickered coins do when it is time to sell. That pretty much will be the final test.

 

In fact, I think CAC is one of the best things to happen to numismatics since I got involved. I am probably second to only Ankur in that belief. Levels the playing field and I refer you to MJ's posts with respect to that issue. This opinion of mine comes from viewing several thousand CACed coins and non-CACed coins in the past couple years. (thumbs u

 

Yabba, dabba, do, HT

 

Nevertheless, it remains true.

 

In fact, half the people are below average intelligence, by definition.

 

I'm sorry if the truth bothers you, but it is still true.

 

No need to refer me to MJ's post, as I do not disagree with your opinion regarding CAC, and stated as much previously.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Some of you have overreacted in this thread.

 

Everything that gmarguli said is completely true. The hobby IS filled with lots of clueless buyers and dealers who lack even basic skills in grading coins. This is a TRUE statement.

 

The only reason why anyone could be offended by that stament is if they internalize it, and think it is a personal comment directed specifically at them.

 

This is the major, major problem of the other sections of the boards, and message boards in general. If someone states something that may be uncomfortable, but is nevertheless true, the person who said it is now "bashing" others, and "making it personal" even though the comment was completely generic, and directed at no specific person at all.

 

The one who takes it personally says to themselves "hey! I'M someone who avails himself of TPGs and CAC! He just called ME clueless!"

 

Except that's not what happened AT ALL.

 

The unintended consequence to TPGs is that they allowed many, many more people to not HAVE to develop the skills necessary...basic skills, in many cases...to properly grade coins and other items for themselves.

 

It is, like many things, a double edge sword. On the one hand, it has substantially opened the market, and created a level of stability that would have otherwise been impossible. On the other hand, it has allowed people to use both TPGs and CAC as a crutch, so they don't have to learn themselves..they can just pay for someone else's opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong...at all..with getting the opinions of others, especially others who are much more experienced than you...when deciding to purchase something. The problem occurs when people become so lazy, they rely SOLELY on those other opnions, and don't train themselves to see if those opinions are, in fact, accurate.

 

That's what gamrguli said, it is COMPLETELY true, and it wasn't "bashing" at all.

 

Good analysis. Can you now read my palm and tell me why everyone of my posts is deemed conflictive?

 

Sure...you "talk" the same way that I do: straightforward and without pulling any punches. Here, as in life, many people are intimidated and off-put by people who speak straightforwardly, without couching their comments in ingratiating terms and phrases like "in my humble opinion" and so forth.

 

Many people see forthrightness, especially if there is some sort of disagreement being discussed, as "rude", "abrupt", and even "insulting" and "hostile."

 

It is what it is, and I don't recommend people alter how they express themselves if their motives aren't truly meant to be hostile and insulting. I appreciate forthrightness, personally, and prefer it to dissembling.

 

Thanks. It is my humble opinion, that terms such as "in my humble opinion", should be assumed by the listener/reader any time anyone says/posts anything anywhere. Even with "facts, there is always an opinion as to which facts are the correct ones.

 

Agreed.

 

The really secure people in the world inherently understand that everyone's opinion is their opinion, without needing verbal or written reassurance that the speaker/writer understands that it's just their opinion.

 

It's one of those things that should be taken for granted.

[FishyOne]

Meanwhile, back at the Batcave another submission for CAC is being readied by the Boy Wonder!

 

Yes! I is he!