Heritage sellers

[davefperry]

It was good of Mr. Rohan to reply and address some questions. Thanks. It's highly doubtful that any nonsense is tolerated at the top there.

But, say a person working in one building knew of someone in the next building who was looking for particular coins. He could delay a late bid or leave something out of an auction description just to help out a buddy or maybe the company in general. If possible it would be unethical and a conflict of interest.

 

[shylock]

I've had a couple consignment coins turn up in their inventory, one of which was offered back to me via their automated wantlist emails. My only gripe was the image was vastly improved! They place their bids "online" and everyone on the floor has the opportunity to top it. Both were rips but in retrospect they actually increased the prices realized by an increment.

[MarkFeld]

Chippewa,

 

You said:

 

"First, if I am an internet bidder with a bid of say $10,000 (before the juice) in on a very special coin and the floor bidding stalls at say $8,000, if you have a Heritage bidder step in and keep going (knowing that there is a $10,000 bid in and with no real desire to win the coin), they can easily suck every last dime of your $10,000 bid out of you. I would put this into the category of outright theft (not that I know this ever happens). All I am saying is that it is possible when these types of conflicts of interest exist"

 

Our company, and many other dealers I know, leave bids with (and/or bid on the internet with) Heritage in almost every sale of theirs and we often purchase coins for considerably below our maximum bids. I am extremely confident that they do not do what you raised as a possibility, above.

[Chippewa]

Mark

 

I have absolutely no evidence and no reason to believe that Heritage has ever done anything unethical on any auction I have been associated with, and I think I took care to suggest no such thing. I think that if Heritage decided in certain cases they would meet the reserve, if not met, would be perfectly fine. However, active bidding in your own auctions raises some conflict of interest questions that are hard to work around.

[New_Horizons]

To all--

as Heritage has made a choice NOT! to reply to my private e-mails, here's a public! view of their illegality:

 

2003 Orlando, FL (FUN) Bullet Sale # 309, lot No. 1060.

This lot is a 1961 NGC PR-68 UC Franklin half dollar. The winning bid, including 'juice', was for $465.75. My bid was for $400 ($460.00) At the $400 level (and before!), the bidding increments are $10 per bid.

As I 'lost' at $400 ($460), the next bid is $410 ($470.50), NOT! $465.75. FOUL!

 

For the record: who won the lot with this illegal bid? The seller would not have placed a reserve at $405, and-- if they had-- let's get a name and address, so we can verify it ourselves.

Tell the people you are NOT! cheating, Heritage. So far, the evidence proves you are!!! I sent TWO! e-mails, trying to resolve this in a private manner; perhaps, publicly, there will be a solution. I'm not mad at losing a close auction, as it happens often. I am! mad that an illegal bid was used to do it!!!

[jtryka]

New Horizons,

 

What happened to you is not illegal, and may not necessarily be any evidence of foul play. There is a very easy way to place a higher bid that does not meet the minimum increment above your maximum bid so long as the bid is at least one increment above the current bid. Let me provide an example:

 

Suppose you have your maximum bid of $400 and the current bid is $300 with a $10 increment. Now most bidders bid even amounts, like $300 or $350, etc. Well if I want to outbid you I might bid a few dollars over that even amount, so I bid $351, and since you bid $400, the bid would go to $361, as your bid would go one full increment above mine. So I decide to bid $405, thinking you might have bid an even $400, well, the bid goes to $405 and I win it, even though it is less than a full increment over yours. It works the other way too, and this is usually how I bid. Say I want to pay $500 for a coin including the juice, well 500/1.15=$435. Well, you could bid $400, and I would beat it by a full increment at $410. But if you just keep going up by $10 and get to $430, then I would outbid you at $435, less than a full increment.

 

The fact that you were outbid by less than the bid increment is not evidence of anything scandalous, it's just the result of pain in the neck bidders like me that refuse to bid nice even dollar amounts. I don't think I had a single bid in the last sale that was an even amount, but I certainly wasn't doing anything illegal or unethical. By the way, the same thing happens on eBay all the time, except it's with pennies, last week I was outbid on a coin I bid $50 on, and the winner bid $50.01.

[EVillageProwler]

Another reason, and one that I see happening all the time, is that the winning bidder decided to put in a ``split'' bid. A split bid is one-half of an increment, but it would be the last bid (by that bidder) for that lot.

 

I see no foul play here.

 

If a lot opened at $400, and would have gone to the book (i.e., you), the floor could request that the lot be re-opened. Then, someone submits a half-incr bid and beats you.

 

This happens with Bowers, Stack's, Smythe, Goldberg, Superior, and Heritage. I've only been to one Sotheby's auction, and they frown on the split bid.

 

EVP

 

[New_Horizons]

Thanks to both of you, for your experiences, but-- I have attempted to enter 'partial' bids, and the system has rejected them as illegal bids, according to the bid increment policy. In this case, the increment is $10, not $5.

I have done literally thousands of dollars of 'business' with Heritage, and find it quite

distressing that they would choose to ignore not one-- but two!-- e-mails for an official answer, and-- by their! rules-- allow bidding that is not legal.

[Tradedollarnut]

You cannot enter a cut bid on the computer unless you jump an increment. A floor bidder may always enter ONE cut bid.

 

The computer will not allow you to enter $25 for your bid if the minimum allowed is $30, but you may enter a higher bid, such as $45. This will allow you to beat any computer bid of $41-44.

 

I don't see anything illegal or unethical here.

 

 

[jtryka]

To clarify, you can not bid 1/2 increment on an internet bid, but you can bid 1.5 or 1.1 or 3.6 increments, that is likely how you were outbid by less than the full increment. If the current bid is $500 and the increment is $25, you could not bid $520, but you could bid $530, or $548, or $526, and if the other bidder only bid $525, you would win with each of these bids, but the $526 bid would cost you the least since the system would cause your bid to move to either your maximum, or the previous bid + the minimum increment (in this example $550=$525+25).

[rgv]

I got this from Heritages bidding guidlines. "All bids must be at least one bidding increment over the current bid. However, these increments only apply to current bids. Bids greater than one increment over the current bid can be any whole dollar amount." So if the current bid was $390 a bid of $405 would be accepted.

[New_Horizons]

Thank you, all!, for taking the time to write, and explain to me the various possibilites with bids, yet-- again-- I have! tried what each of you suggest, and was denied by the computer system.

Honestly, I am not! grousing about losing a nice coin-- it happens. I am, however, deeply upset in that I have tried various bids, with different amounts, at different times, on different auctions, and had those bids refused, yet-- in this case-- it is 'suddenly' allowed... Yes, this was an internet-only auction.

I am further distressed, in that I sent two e-mails, to two different people, on two different days, and-- more than a week! later-- have yet to receive any! kind of reply!!! As a customer who has spent many thousands of dollars with this firm, I am concerned that my coin money needs to find somewhere else! to visit.

I can find no reason why your! partial bids have worked, and mine not. I do not understand how I can be the high-bidder for days-- and at the close-- yet lose the bid. I do! know that five coins, for nearly 2 grand, remains on hold-- for answers.

I tried a private route, and apologize for bringing this public. Thanks to all!, for sharing your concerns, insights, and viewpoints-- it's greatly appreciated!!!

[GregRohan-migration]

I sent you a private reply on Friday offering to help, but being a rookie at using this board I suspect it got lost in cyberspace. My apologies.

 

We try very hard to reply in a timely fashion to inquiries from all of our clients. These past few weeks a large number of our staff have spent 10 days at Orlando and New York where we conducted 6 different auction sales that resulted in $24.5MM in sales to over 1,000 successful buyers out of the over 3,000 bidders that participated. Since we've been back home we've been trying very hard every day to catch up.

 

If you still have any unresolved issues please email me directly and we will get back to you within 24 hours. Once again, I apologize that we did not repy to you more timely. We are working hard to give everyone great service, even during our busiest times.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Sincerely,

Greg Rohan

Gregory J. Rohan

President

Heritage Capital Corporation

 

Heritage Rare Coin Galleries

Heritage Numismatic Auctions, Inc.

Heritage World Coin Auctions

Currency Auctions of America

Heritage Comics & Movie Poster Auctions

 

100 Highland Park Village

Heritage Plaza, 2nd floor

Dallas, Texas 75205

214-528-3500

1-800-872-6467

Private Fax: 214-528-2596

Email: Rohan@HeritageCoin.com

Assistant: Vandy Little, extemsion 218

Email: Vandy@HeritageCoin.com

===

World's Largest Collectibles Dealer and Auctioneer

===

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[EVillageProwler]

I can find no reason why your! partial bids have worked, and mine not. I do not understand how I can be the high-bidder for days-- and at the close-- yet lose the bid.

 

New Horizons,

 

Go back and re-read my previous post. I strongly suspect that you lost out to a floor bidder who simply beat you at half an increment (because he can do that from the floor easily).

 

I have oftentimes beaten a book bid by a mere half increment.

 

Please don't be offended by this, but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. You didn't have your facts straight about the bidding process, and you demanded quick service during a very busy time for that company. (2 emails in a few days does not suggest that you're a very patient person.)

 

EVP

 

[New_Horizons]

Mr. Rohan--

thank-you!, for your efforts!!! No, I have yet to receive any! form of communication from you. Perhaps we can begin again, in a private, relaxed manner, and discuss the issues at hand? I will write you shortly!

[New_Horizons]

EVP--

thanks for your thoughts, and taking the time to reply, but please take notice of my earlier post, stating that this was an internet-only auction.

I understand Heritage is a busy company. I also know I wrote two different people, on two separate days (back to back), and waited...

I am well acquainted with the bidding process, and have attempted bid-entries like those that others have posted they! used. For the life of me, I can't explain why theirs went through, while my attempts didn't!!! My last attempt, which would compliment others' partial bids, was two weeks ago. It was rejected.

As for a lack of patience, I feel that a week! is more! than sufficient to wait. Please be so good as to help shed some light on the mysteries here. Thank-you!

[BankNote1]

Was this auction also on ebay?

[New_Horizons]

No--

this was an internet-only auction run in conjunction with the FUN show, earlier this month. There was no e-Bay, no floor bidding, no activity after its close.

[New_Horizons]

Heritage has made it clear, now, that they can't be bothered with a reply, so-- for your! consideration-- here is a public request seeking truth!!!

The situation: I was the high-bidder, by evidence of the Heritage auction mentioned earlier. The evidence is my 'green' bid entry figure. Had I not! been the high bidder, my bid entry would have been 'red'. At the close of the auction, I still had a 'green' bid entry, meaning I was the high bidder. AFTER! the auction close, I find I am not! the winning bidder!!! I've been outbid by 1/2 a bid!!!

In MY! eyes, I have been cheated. If I was not! the high bidder, then why was my entry 'green'? If I was! the high bidder, how was a partial bid allowed, when I was the high bidder for days, including the close? In MY! eyes, this is fraud, on the part of Heritage.

Please understand that I am NOT! upset for losing an auction. I AM! upset that-- in my! eyes-- I was outbid by foul play! Heritage can't be bothered with a reply, so I ask you Forum members for your! assistance!!! Many thanks to all!!!

[Michael_Weems-migration]

Dear New Horizons,

 

Greg Rohan just made me aware of this thread. For an unknown reason, he hasn't received any correspondence regarding this issue, so he asked me to help you out. Please e-mail me personally at MichaelW@HeritageCoin.com. Please include the lot number and sale number in question, as well as any other relevant information you might have that could help me sort this out.

 

If you don't hear back from me within 1 business day, please call me directly.

[New_Horizons]

Mr. Weems--

Mr. Rohan sent me a private message, seeking information, and I responded in kind, pointing out TWO! requests. This is after two! e-mails to your firm! The first was promptly taken care of, while the second-- and by far, most important!-- has apparently been side-stepped. You have at least TWO! e-mails, outlining the problem, as well as this forum thread!!! My post previous to this one points out the problem.

I have been nothing less than an excellent, problem/trouble-free, client/customer/patron of yours for some time now, and find myself much aggrieved by these latest incidents. I have spent literally thousands with your firm, and never-- until now-- have I asked for a thing. Even my simple request for one

shipped package, instead of multiples, has been met with difficulties and confusion.

My attempts to resolve all of this in a private, quiet manner has met with nothing but a comedy of errors. With that thought in mind, please remove my information from your database-- I'll not be placing any more bids. If Heritage offers it, I don't need it. Thank-you.