1983 Penny weighing 3.1g Found, now nothhing? 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

Well, let's not jump to any hasty conclusions.  The coins are with a family member in Vermont, and he's in Oregon presumably checking out the "vortex" phenomenon. I just don't want anyone scaring him away again like last time.  It took years to get him back.  He has made the acquaintance of a Forum member who interceded in my behalf back a few years at the height of the RR2020 hullabaloo. Maybe I'll PM him and see what's up.  I can't seem to wrap my mind around a motive suggesting there's some margin or advantage to be had in saying you have something, you don't really have. Perchance to dream...  🤔 

[Incidentally, the gentleman who abbreviated a term characterized by a Federal judge some 50 years ago, as a "barnyard epithet," deserves credit here.  That's about as far as I believe he will go in uttering an ungenteel expression.]  

Great stuff!  

[pigeonman333rd]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:35 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Im not usually one to say anything but Im calling BS. That many rare coins and bought them for 50 cents a piece. Rolls and pages full of them. Then asked to show proof and they just happen to be stashed a few states away where cant just get a picture of them. If I had luck that good Id play the powerball and hit it 10 times in a row. Just one of those 2000 s close AM cents are very doubtful. Then to have 50 of them that someone sold for 50 cents a piece. Its just hard for me to believe. Probably hard for anyone else on this forum to believe also. Even all the other CAMs and Wams that are a little more common but still semi rare. Id believe someone having a couple or something like that. But to have rolls and pages full is beyond belief for me. Youd have a better chance proving to me that bigfoot is real. 

Let me clearify things I checked the 1999's and they are close am's I bought as wide am's same with the 1998's I had my sister check the 2000 s proofs and she said their is definitly a space so they are 2000 s proofs wide am reverse and they are not rare but I bought those as just proofs so I didn't get ripped off their like the 1999 and 1998's. The 2000 wide am's though their real and I have about a roll and then some so they are least rare and I can take pictures of those. I don't pay much attention to my modern cents though because they will only be valuable in 100 years.

[Oldhoopster]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:15 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Let me clearify things I checked the 1999's and they are close am's I bought as wide am's same with the 1998's I had my sister check the 2000 s proofs and she said their is definitly a space so they are 2000 s proofs wide am reverse and they are not rare but I bought those as just proofs so I didn't get ripped off their like the 1999 and 1998's. The 2000 wide am's though their real and I have about a roll and then some so they are least rare and I can take pictures of those. I don't pay much attention to my modern cents though because they will only be valuable in 100 years.

Did you confirm and your sister confirm by checking the designers initials.  Many times they are an  easier and more accurate marker for WAM and CAM than the A M spacing. The pics are on the Lincoln Cent Resource site

Edited October 25, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[VKurtB]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, Oldhoopster said:

Did you confirm and your sister confirm by checking the designers initials.  Many times they are an  easier and more accurate marker for WAM and CAM than the A M spacing. The pics are on the Lincoln Cent Resource site

Yes, this. On ‘close AM’, the FG initials are removed from the steps, and on the ‘wide AM’, the FG initials are tucked up REALLY close to the steps. 

[Henri Charriere]

This changes everything... maybe.  I jumped on the bandwagon of the member who called, B.S.  It's his call now.  Bear in mind, nothing as of yet, has been introduced into evidence. [Realistically, can one expect any collector to leap-frog over a continent to simply back up an assertion with facts?]

[pigeonman333rd]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:35 PM, Hoghead515 said:

 

Here is a pic just of the roll that I bought. I put one pic of what one of the reverses look like so you can see they are wide am's  but trying to post every coin is a waste of time I dont have all day. You don't have to believe me but I did want to add that the seller of these coins has grown wise and currently sells these same kind of coins in the same condition for 6.95 plus 1.95 shipping and handling. I worked out a deal with the shop to sell me all of the coins in the advertisement for 5.00 a piece plus 1.95 shipping and handling. I filled out another half a page and have about 12 coins in the mail that are coming that I paid 5.00 a piece plus 1.95 shipping and handling for. The buying a roll at .50 cent a piece was a one time deal. I would buy it again but they won't sell me another roll I asked.

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's some coins to look at. The coins in the picture are suspected to by cyprus mils but I have my doubts because they were bought at a local coin shop in Vermont where they sell copper by the pound for 1.99 a pound but you gotta buy 10 pounds. I have a feeling they are counterfeits but I don't know anything about them other than there were supposed to be 25,000 of them. That's another reason I think they could be counterfeits because the mintage is low and who sells rare coins for the price of copper by the pound. 

[Mr.Bill347]

the pictures are way to blurry to see any detail. looking through plastic pages within flips is nearly impossible to form any opinion whatsoever.

[Oldhoopster]

Posting the pages is A waste of time.  How can we tell anything.  The close up does appear to be a WAM but the initials are too blurry for confirmation.  What date is it? 2000?  And do you have access to the 00-S proof CAMs?  Those are the coins of interest.  A pic of both the A M and initials is needed.

[pigeonman333rd]

Is that better?

[pigeonman333rd]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:46 AM, Oldhoopster said:

Posting the pages is A waste of time.  How can we tell anything.  The close up does appear to be a WAM but the initials are too blurry for confirmation.  What date is it? 2000?  And do you have access to the 00-S proof CAMs?  Those are the coins of interest.  A pic of both the A M and initials is needed.

not those particular coins but I ordered more from the same seller and they will be here soon. I figure its worth looking through the roll of proofs to try to find one. I asked the seller if they were close am reverses and they replied no they shouldn't be, they should be the same reverse as the wide am cents but I want to search the roll anyway. They were cheap enough at 30.00 roll and free shipping but I will keep you posted. I believe my sister when she said their is a space bettween the A and the M I just miss labled them. I gotta order rolls because their is a chance their is one out their. The only thing I know is that the proofs come from silver proof sets that people split to sell individual coins so my chances of finding one are slim to non but at $30.00 a roll I can't pass up the chance to find one. The coin I have been looking for in circulating change is the 2008-2012 canadian cent non magnetic with a p. What do you look for in change?  

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/26/2022 at 2:23 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

.... they were bought at a local coin shop in Vermont where they sell copper by the pound for 1.99 a pound but you gotta buy 10 pounds.....That's another reason I think they could be counterfeits because the mintage is low and who sells rare coins for the price of copper by the pound. 

🐓:   Forget mintage and provenance, and think date. These are modern, non-copper coins!  What right does anybody have selling non-copper "for the price of copper by the pound?" What's the correlation?

Q.A.:  You do have a point.

[pigeonman333rd]

Thank you very much at least they won't get sold to the next guy. More junk for the junk collection. This at least allows me to take them out of the safe and lable them as not a coin.

[pigeonman333rd]

Thanks VkurtB I will look to see if their is an fg on the reverse of the 2000 s proofs that are coming in the mail. I will be sure to wear gloves when I search that roll  

[Oldhoopster]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:58 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Thanks VkurtB I will look to see if their is an fg on the reverse of the 2000 s proofs that are coming in the mail. I will be sure to wear gloves when I search that roll  

There IS an FG on ALL the Lincoln Memorial cents.  The FG on the CAM and WAM are different.  Did you look at the pics on the Lincoln Cent Resource site?  It may be easier to ID CAMs and WAMs from the initials than the A M spacing.  I said this in previous posts but it seems like your ignoring the information

[pigeonman333rd]

lincoln cent source I will check it out right now

 

[pigeonman333rd]

Ah so theirs a space between the FG and the monument on the close am proofs I follow you. Thats a good resource man thanks. This will give me a chance to check out a few other coins I think I got in the collection. I have two 1931-S cents that site has information on their but those again were found with many counterfeits on a coin roll hunt so I just labled them as possible counterfeit. I've only found two boxes in my whole life except for one nickel roll that had obvious counterfeits but their were alot of them along with some altered coins. The 1922's I have 2 of as well one with an obvious d and it looks like a scratched out s or d. Thanks again I will check the new roll that's coming.   

[pigeonman333rd]

Here is the coin I found in change with the questionable mint mark. I think somebody just scratched out the D looks like it was done with a nail or something. I got 2 1922's but no need to take a picture of the other one it has a d. The lincoln cent source says their was a weak d though I dought this is it worth a looksie.  

[VKurtB]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:53 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Is that better?

No, not even CLOSE to being better. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:04 PM, Oldhoopster said:

There IS an FG on ALL the Lincoln Memorial cents.  The FG on the CAM and WAM are different.  Did you look at the pics on the Lincoln Cent Resource site?  It may be easier to ID CAMs and WAMs from the initials than the A M spacing.  I said this in previous posts but it seems like your ignoring the information

Yes, this. It IS easier to diagnose WAMs and CAMs by the designers initials at the right side of the Memorial. If “FG” is really close, the AM is not, and vice versa. 

[pigeonman333rd]

well the other guy said they are not copper so probably fake I tried with my camera but I cant find my charger or my sd drive to my nikon does any one know how I could take better pictures I'm open to suggestion or buying a device to do so we collect alot of junk coins and this sight is nice enough to let us chat coins. I will try again later I got two jobs to go to tonight so I gotta go to bed.

[Henri Charriere]

[🐓 :  Hey, Q.  Alright if I distinguish the "their," "there," and "they're"?

Q.A.  I would rather you not. This guy's on a roll (pardon the pun) and a straight-shooter.  I like his modus operandi. This Forum can use a breath of fresh air, now and again.]

 

[Oldhoopster]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:17 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Here is the coin I found in change with the questionable mint mark. I think somebody just scratched out the D looks like it was done with a nail or something. I got 2 1922's but no need to take a picture of the other one it has a d. The lincoln cent source says their was a weak d though I dought this is it worth a looksie.  

Looks like a 22 weak D but sometimes it's hard to distinguish if it's weak or Normal D since the dies were overused by the Denver mint.  

A) If you want to talk about a different coin, START A NEW THREAD.  Look at the title of this thread.  Does it have anything to do with the CAM WAM discussion or the other random coins you posted?  NO. When people see the title of the thread, they might say, "oh, this is a old thread about a 1983 cent.  Skip it".  You'll get more looks if you start a new thread to discuss a new topic.  

B) it is very unusual to find a counterfeit roll searching, yet you claim to have numerous examples.  There are some contemporary examples from the 20s and 30s (usually quarters), but they are easy to spot.  You need to confirm, are they struck or cast?  Does the weight fall within the mint tolerance? Do the letters and numbers match the correct font and placement (compare to coins on pcgs coin facts).  Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's counterfeit.  Start a new thread with some clear, focused pics of the obverse and rev of 1 or 2 of your counterfeits and you'll get good, accurate feedback.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[pigeonman333rd]

First of all I'm not ready yet to start a new thread, but I will when my rolls and equipment get here. I can talk about wams and cams because I recently bought 2000 s proof cent rolls one from mint state sets and one from silver proof sets. I don't want to post pages of counterfeits because a local coin shop already declared to me that they a definitly counterfeits and I have no questions about them. I regret saying anything about them because they are not counterstamped copy like they are supposed to be and maybe illegal to own. The way I obtained them was through the bank when I was asked by the teller if I was interested in obtaining possible controban rolls. The lady explained that they could contain tokens and collectables but she warned me if you take these rolls you have to sign for them and agree that any controban you find you can't return it to the bank thats the reason they decided to sell the rolls to a collector. The coin shop owner said he wasn't born yesterday when he seen the coins because I told him they came from change.He explained their is no wear marks, no finger prints and their are copper filings that would have flatted from circulation and that their were no hair line scratches on the coins. He said you didn't find these in change you had to have purchased them somewhere. The point is I have been insulted enough. I have no further questions about the authenticity of the items and furthermore don't want to post pictures of them because they are a liability. The secret service along with the the NSA monitor counterfeit distribution in this country and I want no part of that mess.I do however have questions about coins found in copper bought per pound. I have only a few that look real but I need help validating their authenticity. As far as trying to find a new cam I'm up to the challenge but I gotta get a microscope with a camera online to do that and payday is the 28th so I gotta wait. Thanks for the lincoln cent source though, I will use it while I search the two rolls that are coming. I have to buy new gloves and get new coin roll holders yet. I did receive 12 new 2000 wam's though however I paid way too much for them $5 dollars a piece plus 5.95 shipping. The price has gone up alot in 20 years far from 50 cents a piece but you gotta buy a whole roll. I sent most of the counterfeits to my sister to store them and mostly to get them out of my possession. I kept a few pages to look at but other then that they a serious burden and I hope you can respect my decision not to show them off because that's evidence that I have them in my possession. I will make a new thread when the time is right to do so, until then happy coin roll hunting.    

[Oldhoopster]

Extraordinary claims and no pics (of the counterfeits) = no proof = you don't have it.  Simple enough

You did say you'd get some pics of the 00-S CAM when you get the proper equipment.  OK, we'll wait.  The WAM you posted earlier (no date given) appears to be a WAM so you may be able to ID them correctly.  

You can't pop on these boards, make extraordinary claims, not provide proof, and expect to get instant credibility.  Sorry you feel insulted, but you were told what you need to do back up your claims, but you have yet to do so. 

You also need to remember that just because a coin dealer sells coins, doesn't mean they are an expert in all areas of numismatics, especially errors and counterfeits.  Maybe your dealer is A true numismatist, and maybe he's just a coin seller.  

I think its time to let you go and add you to my "Do Not Respond" list.  I tried to help but you seem to have an abundant supply of excuses.  To much nonsense to deal with.  Best of luck with your rolls of rare proof CAMs

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:20 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

....I regret saying anything about them because they are not counterstamped copy like they are supposed to be and maybe illegal to own. The way I obtained them was through the bank when I was asked by the teller if I was interested in obtaining possible controban rolls. The lady explained that they could contain tokens and collectables but she warned me if you take these rolls you have to sign for them and agree that any controban you find you can't return it to the bank thats the reason they decided to sell the rolls to a collector....The secret service along with the the NSA monitor counterfeit distribution in this country and I want no part of that mess.... I sent most of the counterfeits to my sister to store them and mostly to get them out of my possession....

🐓:  Time to pigeonhole the pigeonman...

Q.A.:  I agree, but where to begin...  1-  not everything "counterfeit" is stamped "COPY," nor do they have to be.  2-  The "arrangement" the lady at the bank proposed is so highly irregular as to be laughable, criminal--or both!  3-  If, as you maintain, the Secret Service (now subsumed by Homeland Security) monitors counterfeit distribution, why, oh why, would you volunteer the party to whom you sent those goods to before a live studio audience viewed by millions?

If it's any consolation, the Powerball is up to $825 million, and rising, ahead of Saturday's drawing.  If the Moai of Easter Island should show me favor, I will give you a fresh start. Hell, I'll even bail out the hapless family member you drew into the mix!             

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:40 PM, Oldhoopster said:

....I think its time to let you go and add you to my "Do Not Respond" list....

Not so fast, Oldhoop'!  You specifically stated elsewhere you never have ignored anyone--and never would!  Why does this member merit special treatment?    

[Oldhoopster]

On 10/28/2022 at 7:18 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Not so fast, Oldhoop'!  You specifically stated elsewhere you never have ignored anyone--and never would!  Why does this member merit special treatment?    

I have numerous members that I do not respond to.  I.e., no help, no answering questions, no sharing info.  Sometimes there is too much nonsense and that's where this member seems to be going, IMO. I just don't put them on the official ignore because their posts can be humorous and entertaining, watching them try to be credible.

Does anybody really think a bank teller sold this guy numerous modern counterfeits or he has rolls of a coin that Lincoln Cent Resource describes as,   Furthermore, discovering something like a 2000 S Close AM would be truly  rare. 

[pigeonman333rd]

I explained to old hoopster that the 2000 s proofs were all wide am cents so what's the big deal. Ignore away 

[J P M]

There is always the questions on the WAM. I found these 2x2 holders they help to take away the controversy if the picture is the same coin. Still looking for the 1999. That one my never be found