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Let's discuss the 1853-O A&R 50c DDR

7 posts in this topic

During the LSCC meeting at FUN, Osburn reminded the membership of the 1853(-P) A&R DDR, and that a fellow member had discussed with him as to how that could have come to pass. As a result, began a multi-year search for a '53-O A&R DDR specimen.

 

At this meeting, he announced that he had finally found a specimen. He showed it to me later on; it is a high-grade specimen details-wise, but had been cleaned.

 

Anyone care to speculate how was able to make the leap from a '53-P DDR to a '53-O DDR (A&R only)?

 

Think about this... This really is quite an interesting numismatic subject.

 

EVP

 

PS I was hoping to discuss this with DWL. (DWL, feel free to chime in with your thoughts.)

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I'm a bit raw on subjects dating so far back, my studies take me back to 1909 and lightly beyond into the IHC series...but I will give it a shot from what I do know..

 

Assuming the multiple hubbing technique was in use at the time, if there are two DDRs with differing mint marks that are the same in hub doubling spread, I would have to assume that a working hub was doubled from a master die, and that doubled working hub was used to hub at least two dies. Of the resulting dies, one was sent to New Orleans and the other was retained for use in Philadelphia.

 

If, by chance, there are multiple examples found from either mint, those examples could be compared to one another for die diagnostics to see if they are the same die. If not, and the spread is the same, the working hub theory is on key probably better than 90%. If they are the same die, the working hub theory is still mostly a guess, unless characteristics passed from the master die to the working hub, then on to the working dies from both mints...and those characteristics were passed on to the resulting coins.

 

Am I close?

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Am I close?

 

Dunno... There aren't many ways to get die doubling, and you hit upon one of them.

 

Not to say whether your right or wrong, I will say that 's theory differs from yours in how this particular doubling occurred on the die, and hinges on the fact that we're discussing the A&R variety as opposed to the No A&R variety.

 

Also, please keep in mind that there is no conclusive answer. But, if we get a healthy discussion going on this, I will probably forward this thread to Osburn and perhaps Randy Wiley for further comment.

 

EVP

 

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Unfortunately a lot of what I could add to this thread would have to come after researching first the series in general, then the particular date. I understand the process and how it works, and I understand and can pick hub doubling without any trouble - but in this case it might as well be on a bhat coin from Thailand. I can tell you it's a doubled die, I can explain the general process, but not knowing anything about the series or date, like mintage, known number of dies, etc. it becomes very difficult very quickly to get any more specific about the subject.

 

I am assuming from your comment that it be remembered that these examples are on A/R halves they must be in very short supply - I don't know, I've seen a couple, but that's about as far as my knowledge of them goes.

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

I believe that a separate master die was prepared bearing the glory of rays, since it was anticipated that this feature would be dropped once enough new coins were in circulation. If the master die was doubled in the hubbing process, so would the working hubs (as has already been suggested) and the working dies sent to both mints.

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I've never seen the 53-0 ddr. but the 53-p version also has a cud in the shield that also extends to the feather outside the shield.

 

if this was preasant on both then there we go!

 

here's a pic EVP.

93980-53-p.JPG.604688e816e362a77380e657606ce5a9.JPG

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