My FUN 2003 experience

[EVillageProwler]

I got back from the show today, having been there since Monday. Man - I am tired!

 

Here are my thoughts...

 

The auction activity seemed very brisk for 4-figure (and less) coins. Superior, Bowers and Heritage stuff seemed to bring lots of money. The live Internet bidding helped increase the bidding during the Superior sale.

 

Overall, however, I was disappointed with much of the material. In the area of my specialty (pre-Morgan dollars), I found very little of interest in auction and on the floor.

 

ED's were hot, and people will pay large money for so-so quality specimens.

 

I sold a number of Bust and Seated Dollars, and got VERY good money for them. I came home with 2 newps, with yet another newp still a possibility. One of the newps is for a buddy; the one that is for me is a major condition rarity of a key date Seated Dollar. The one yet to be is another major condition rarity of yet another key date Seated Dollar.

 

I didn't run into anyone. The forum members that I saw there I already knew were going: DollarMike, RoadRunner, TDN. I also stopped to chat with Legend and Pinnacle (Mark Feld). Laura was in serious discomfort from a temporary, non-serious (I hope!) medical issue. MF seemed very busy -- which, I suppose, was good for him.

 

I wanted to stop and chat with DWL as well, but each time I tried, he seemed very busy.

 

I also picked up some interesting thread material that I'll post when I get a chance.

 

EVP

 

[EVillageProwler]

I forgot to mention...

 

The registry fever struck again. The Pennsylvania Collection of Buffs sold for HUGE money. Imagine a 1936-D Buff going for $26K hammer? Yes, it is a MS68 specimen, but, but...

 

Many of them went for huge money. Mind boggling huge money.

 

EVP

 

[coppercoins-migration]

EVP - I've seen some others chime in on this, but I wanted to hear your opinion.

 

Is there a chance - even a small chance - that the prices realized in the auction might have been somewhat inflated because people wanted to bid one price on a coin but ended up finding out they bid much more because the wires and lines weren't keeping up with the clicks? Meaning...you see a coin at $300, you click to bid $325 and by the time your click goes through, you've registered a bid for $700? I have heard things like this happening, and although technology is a great thing sometimes, it may not match well with a live internet and floor auction.

 

What are your thoughts? Were there perhaps some BIG sellers that only were so because of glitches, or was the general atmosphere the bliss of tossing wads of cash around that we people out here in cyber land have seen over the past week? Some of the prices realized in the auction were, simply put, wholly unbelievable.

[IrishMike]

EVP, sorry I didn't run into you. I was busy stopping at most every dealers tables looking for raw IHC cents. The rest of my time was spent at Eagle Eye Rare Coin talking to Rick, Larry Stevens, Tim aka Lakesamm and Paul, aka Shylock. Paul was busy taking pictures of some of the most beautiful coins I have ever seen, deeply toned proof IHC's most of them 67's.

 

He also snapped a couple for Stewart, 1856 pattern coin. I did manage to find a red and blue 1880 IHC, NGC MS65 that is just unbelievably toned for an MS coin. There were some serious IHC guys there and had the good fortune to eat dinner with them Thursday night.

 

David Hall made the comment Friday night and he repeated the words "In my opinion" twice that NCS will ruin some coins. This was in reply to a question about them starting up a conservation program similar to NCS.

[Weidel Legacy Collection]

EVP -

Thanks for the update. I've never been to a large show and really look forward to going some day - so its nice to live vicariously through the stories of others

[EVillageProwler]

Charles,

 

I believe that there is a small -- very small -- chance that what you suppose may be true. However, I feel that the probability of this being true is so small as to be tantamount to zero.

 

I think this because the book from all sources were strong: Internet; podium; and, floor.

 

In general, the bidders were VERY aggressive. I had considered cherrying some lovely AU to ChAU Capped Bust halves in ANACS holders. My thought was that I'd pay``sheet'' money for them due to holder bias, and them get them into PCGS or NGC holders and sell them as PQ coins. (That idea was a bust -- pun intended -- because the coins brought strong money from the floor.)

 

Another reason why I discount this possibility (of a unintentionally rigged system due to a slow connection) is because there isn't an uproar about this. Finally, I know that the sessions (that I went to) were obnoxiously S...L...O...W because they were waiting for the Internet to catch up.

 

I wanted to put a gun to my head during a few of the sessions. Bob Merrill woke me back up when he took over as auctioneer. Otherwise, things were slow.

 

EVP

 

[Chippewa]

EVP -

 

I have only been to the mid-sized Michigan Numismatic Society shows here in Michigan and even they wear me out in less than four hours. It must take real stamina to hang in there for four days. It must take real willpower (or a real knowledge of what you are looking for) to be there for four days and only buy two coins. If I stayed at a coin show for four days I would need to sell my house.

 

Thanks for the report.

 

I bid in all three auctions, winning nothing in the B&M sale but getting what appears to be a very nice 1837 No Stars Half Dime in MS66 for my type set in the Superior sale and two gold dollars and three commems in the Heritage sale. I ended up winning a bid on a very original NGC MS66 commem where I had low-balled a bid and was very sure I would not win. That probably tells me that the pros that were working sight-seen felt it was overgraded. Oh well, since I only paid 65 money for it I shouldn't get hurt too bad.

 

I was shocked at some of the prices paid for the ultra-high grade commems. $18,400 for an MS68 San Diego??? Yikes.

[EVillageProwler]

IM,

 

We may have been within very close proximity of each other... I did spend some time with the Liberty folks who shared space with Rick's folks. I was trying to dissuade a buddy from buying an ED that I disliked.

 

He bought the coin anyway...

 

EVP

 

[EVillageProwler]

Chippewa,

 

That you think you got a rip on a classical commem should not cause you to think that the coin isn't nice. There are many reasons why you could've gotten the rip, one of them being that there were so many lots that something is bound to get through. It happens at every major auction that a few nice coins get through for little money.

 

EVP

 

[coppercoins-migration]

EVP - Thanks for the input. I hadn't directly asked an attendee about that yet, I'll let the subject rest. Still amazed at the prices...especially on the Lincolns.

[Chippewa]

EVP

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. However, I will not believe that I put one over on the collected multitude until I see it. First of all, it is not a common coin in 66 and is one of those commems where everyone would pay some attention. Second, I bid based on Heritage's scans, which is always risky. For many really nice coins, it seems like the coins look better in person than in their scans. Conversely, there are some real dogs that look OK in their scans.

 

Anyway, it is actually pretty fun to bid by remote control. You no doubt get burned occasionally but it is all part of the game.

 

 

[EVillageProwler]

I also picked up some interesting thread material that I'll post when I get a chance.

 

At the show, a prominent member of our hobby showed me a very rare pattern (one of two known). I have emailed him asking if he'd mind that I use his cool coin as message board fodder. (There is something VERY INTERESTING about his specimen.)

 

Also, I was discussing with a classics dealer about a Franklin. (Yes, you read it correctly!) We were discussing that pop 1/0 S-mint MS67 FBL Frankie from the '50's that sold for ~ $70K or so initially and then sold a few months later for approximately half the amount.

 

That dealer friend told me that he thinks that the initial buyer had reneged on the purchase; the coin never actually sold for $70K+.

 

EVP

 

[Sunnywood]

Regarding that Franklin .... according to what I have heard, the initial sale at the higher price was to, shall we say, a friend or colleague. The idea of such a venture is to establish the appearance of an actual market price price with a sham transaction. Then at a subsequent auction or retail sale, the seller can point to this auction result as proof of the coin's (artificially inflated) value.

 

Of course, I cannot verify this, and it is hearsay; but I know that such things do occur from time to time.

 

Sunnywood

 

[keithdagen]

Chippewa,

 

I picked up a bargain bin price on a Sesqui at the Heritage auction. Two people who looked at it afterwards thought I got a great deal, so your commem may have been overlooked in the rest of the frenzy. Sometimes, it just happens, and you as the buyer get lucky.

[keithdagen]

EVP,

 

I just loved reading your story about your auction wheeling and dealing from across the street. Excellent read.

[IrishMike]

Chippewa, there is a common misconception that the shows always attract a lot of floor bidders. A couple of times I snuck my head into the room there were only between 10 and 12 floor bidders in there. Once when the mercs were up and once when they were selling Morgans.

[keithdagen]

I've gotten a lot of coins on account of that. The dealers get into a heated exchange for a MS-68*** coin with monster toning, then all have to run out and celebrate, cry, smoke, or just get air while my little MS-63 piece crosses the block.

[EVillageProwler]

I just loved reading your story about your auction wheeling and dealing from across the street. Excellent read.

 

Thanks. It was a very stressful few minutes for a few people...

 

EVP

 

[Android]

EVP,

 

What was your opinion of the Miller collection? I thought it was amazing to see all of those coins in one place at one time, truly amazing!

 

Andy

[EVillageProwler]

Andy,

 

I forgot that Warren's collection was on display there. Was it at the NGC booth? Anyway, I've seen it a few times before. It's hard for me to take it all in because there are so many specimens. Typical of every major ED set, that one had many pieces that weren't nice at all -- and I'm not talking about the super-rarities where he had no choice.

 

Still, I don't wish to bad-mouth the set. It's a supreme accomplishment and, frankly, I want it!

 

EVP