Where are the great uncertified coins?

[MarkFeld]

Slabs have ENCOURAGED far more damage to great coins than otherwise due to the blatant desire to doctor, dip and "improve" them in order to obtain higher grades.

 

James it is wrong and unfair to blame "slabs" for that. Greed is the cause, and the quest for higher grades applies to uncertified coins, just as it does certified ones.

[mkman123]

You can still handle your coins somewhat in a slab and its safer as what if your hands are sweaty and you drop it? A raw coin would dent, etc while a slab would protect it. Plus if you have children and they somehow get ahold of a coin..........could you imagine peanut butter hands on a raw early american copper?

[Hard Times]

Or how about some melted chocolate?

[newprepper]

Or how about some melted chocolate?

 

Or god forbid they eat it and you have to recover it another way

[Nutmeg Coin]

Slabs have ENCOURAGED far more damage to great coins than otherwise due to the blatant desire to doctor, dip and "improve" them in order to obtain higher grades.

 

James it is wrong and unfair to blame "slabs" for that. Greed is the cause, and the quest for higher grades applies to uncertified coins, just as it does certified ones.

 

I'm waiting for a blockbuster book, "Confessions of a coin doctor" or the like. There are some really unscrupulous operators out there....

[James_OldeTowne]

Slabs have ENCOURAGED far more damage to great coins than otherwise due to the blatant desire to doctor, dip and "improve" them in order to obtain higher grades.

James it is wrong and unfair to blame "slabs" for that. Greed is the cause, and the qiuest for higher grades applies to uncertified coins, just as it does certified ones.

Mark, of course, I in no way shape or form would blame the existence of coin doctors on certification. I have read that coin doctors have existed for over two thousand years, as the ancient Romans who collected earlier coins had to deal with altered coins even in their time.

 

But I collected coins decades before slabs, and collect them now during the decades of slabs. I am completely convinced, in my heart, that desire to "improve" coins for the huge financial benefit of a single point upgrade has done more to encourage coin doctoring than any other development in coin collecting.

 

Do I think that the positive aspects of certification outweigh the negative? Certification has extremely beneficial effects on the hobby. But let's not kid ourselves, no way did the blatant doctoring of coins become mainstream until after the advent of slabs, when outrageous escalation in what people pay for coins made it so very profitable.

[Kurtdog]

I would rather spoil a coin with an ugly slab that preserves it for the next generation than exposing to air with moisture, sulfur, dilute acid vapors, fingers and breath, and all other factors that occur when a coin is not protected from the environment.

http://www.air-tites.com/

[erwindoc]

I happen to know of two deceased collectors in my small town. Both had rather impressive collections. One, I got to view in person, but only a small portion. Both are now in the hands of spouses. I know I would love to get my hands on either!

[mkman123]

erwindoc, do you know if the spouses know anything about coins? What if they are dropping morgans at the bank for face value, spending the gold coins, cleaning all the rare coins, etc?

 

Maybe visit the spouses and speak to them!

[Buffalo Head]

Perryhall, I instantly think "Why is it not slabbed, is their something up with it"?

 

I agree. It's the first thing that enters my mind . But then again there are some folks that just don't send them in for grading. Old school....They like it that way.

[PerryHall]

I happen to know of two deceased collectors in my small town. Both had rather impressive collections. One, I got to view in person, but only a small portion. Both are now in the hands of spouses. I know I would love to get my hands on either!

 

The spouses or collections?

[newprepper]

I happen to know of two deceased collectors in my small town. Both had rather impressive collections. One, I got to view in person, but only a small portion. Both are now in the hands of spouses. I know I would love to get my hands on either!

 

The spouses or collections?

 

Damn!!! You beat me to it

[Kurtdog]

Do I think that the positive aspects of certification outweigh the negative? Certification has extremely beneficial effects on the hobby. But let's not kid ourselves, no way did the blatant doctoring of coins become mainstream until after the advent of slabs, when outrageous escalation in what people pay for coins made it so very profitable.

I agree with that. "Pretty grading" (oh, I'm sorry, I mean, "market grading") put the money in it.

 

Getting back to the question of certification, it's marketing, pure and simple. It's the marketing of a label, a brand-identity. There was a time, believe it or not, when Clorox Bleach sold at three times the cost of generic bleach. Even though both of those products were identical, if the bleach was generic, housewives, back in that day, were apt to ponder, "Why doesn't it have a Clorox label on it?"

 

There must be something wrong with it, that's why. It must be an inferior product.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

With the families who outlive the collectors of significant collections, the problem is usually lack of knowledge, made harder with uncertified coins because of the necessary learning curve before the seller is aware of actual value. Stories about old time high value collections being snapped up by dealers who would lie and generally just keep the owners in the dark would make your hair curl. Even certified, better date or higher grade coins will not fetch market price unless shipped. I know here in Connecticut, Sam Sloat will not pay GS bid for virtually any certified coin but closer to BS; Brookfield pays around spot for $20 gold coins in or out of holder; Good Ole Toms pays less; Guilford may pay a premium, but they also will use terms of art, such as that they have no current buyers at GS prices.

 

Certifieds will at least give the inheriting families a fighting chance to get near market; if they pick up Coin World and start making some phone calls companies will want them to ship so they can make an offer. Basically people need to do their own research in auction archives where they can compare apples with apples. If the coins are certified by ANACS, SEGS or ICG it will be very hard for them to drive the kind of hard bargain to get market prices even for nice or rare coins in those holders.

[Kurtdog]

I'd sell my coins before I let somebody inherit them who was going to treat them like commodities.

[newprepper]

I have thought about this very problem, my solution is to already leave a death letter in my belongings, and let wife know about value and the best way to either keep or dispose of among other things. Since I spent time in Iraq, (yes I did have a letter in my mess so if something happened my wife would know she was in my thoughts) I have been planning for how best to handle that instance. Gruesome subject. Sorry

[World Colonial]

I'm of the opinion that there are 3 types of coins out there.

 

1. Slabbed and certified.

 

2. Raw coins that go from owner to owner over and over to the point the handling begins to show.

 

3. Raw old time collections either in the hands of very old people or their heirs.

 

Of these groups I think the third group is a tiny fraction of all coins but likely the best.

 

 

Someone has all the BU Barber Halves and they're sure not in Dealers Cases.

 

I share your opinion. Because I collect world coins exclusively, this topic is of great interest to me because I do not believe that the survival rate of most coins is generally known or where most of the better coins are located.

 

For US coins, I believe that the vast majority of at least the most expensive coins have been graded. As one example, Heritage provides conflicting estimates of 48 and 60 for the 1878-S half dollar. The last time I checked, the combined census had 39. Considering potential duplicates and "details" specimens not included in the census, 48 seems more realistic to me unless there are more problem coins than I think. I could see a few currently unaccounted for but not more given the value of even a lowly G-4 which is at least $25,000.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I was talking to a long-term collector who has a lot of nice BU $20s that are somewhat better date but almost all uncertified. Why hasn't he gotten them submitted? There frankly is no reason not to submit such coins, it will make it much easier to dispose of them in the future and with the attractive "gold rush" tier at NGC he would average around $20 a coin for the slabbing. Anything grading MS62 or above would more than pay for itself.

[Conder101]

Why does he need to bother with slabbing them until he decides to sell them? If he slabs them now and just holds them he has sunk a lot of extra money into them that he can use for other things in the mean time. When he wants to sell he can sink the money and then get it back immediately from the sale. If he doesn't intend to sell in the immediate future it makes more economic sense not to slab them at this time.

[Nutmeg Coin]

If he gets them graded now, less trouble later. If he has a medical condition of some type, he will be preoccupied with handling those concerns and it will pretty much be too late at that point and the relatives won't have a clue about grading in most cases or know how to get top dollar. It will complicate the probate issues, which from what I have seen have been almost always a cause of problems. Certified with a piece of paper in the safe deposit box, describling process for sale or auction would make things a lot easier.

[newprepper]

If he gets them graded now, less trouble later. If he has a medical condition of some type, he will be preoccupied with handling those concerns and it will pretty much be too late at that point and the relatives won't have a clue about grading in most cases or know how to get top dollar. It will complicate the probate issues, which from what I have seen have been almost always a cause of problems. Certified with a piece of paper in the safe deposit box, describling process for sale or auction would make things a lot easier.

 

Having just watched that process when my sister in law died last year, 4 kids, 2 fathers, I have custody of 2, probably getting other 2, kids ended up with nothing, no will.

 

Very good advice