If you were in my position, what would you ask for this coin?

[coinman_23885]

I'd be one to assume my max bid was just off and would lower my asking price accordingly. You still make your margins and maybe you wind up with another customer (the coins eventual purchaser) who will tell others that they were treated fairly.

 

That kind of credibility is golden.

 

But this presupposes that a dealer's margin is and should be a fixed percentage of a sale. If I were a dealer, I would seek to maximize my margin on every transaction (within ethical limitations). I see nothing inherently unethical about asking $500 or so (whatever you would have charged).

[newprepper]

margins are higher and lower on different items, its not the same across the board, I agree with coinman

[James_OldeTowne]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

[coinman1794]

This type of situation comes up every once in a while. And when it does, I usually have a difficult time deciding what to do.......

 

I viewed, liked very much and placed a maximum bid of $423 for this coin.

 

But I won it for only $258.

 

If I'd had to pay my maximum bid of $423, I would probably list the coin for sale at approximately $500.

 

But since I won it for only $258, 1) I admittedly think that my bid was possibly/probably higher than the coin deserved and 2) I would feel like a pig asking $500 for it.

 

What would you do if you were in charge of pricing it? Thanks.

 

For the record, the coin is not currently for sale. And, in order to avoid the potential issue of spam, I will not sell it to anyone who posts to this thread or contacts me as a result of this thread.

 

From a business perspective, I would price it at what I believe the value of the coin is, regardless of what I paid for it. Every dealer, from time to time, has coins that have to be sold at a loss because they have paid too much. Extra gains on an occasional coin offset the occasional losses.

[newprepper]

This type of situation comes up every once in a while. And when it does, I usually have a difficult time deciding what to do.......

 

I viewed, liked very much and placed a maximum bid of $423 for this coin.

 

But I won it for only $258.

 

If I'd had to pay my maximum bid of $423, I would probably list the coin for sale at approximately $500.

 

But since I won it for only $258, 1) I admittedly think that my bid was possibly/probably higher than the coin deserved and 2) I would feel like a pig asking $500 for it.

 

What would you do if you were in charge of pricing it? Thanks.

 

For the record, the coin is not currently for sale. And, in order to avoid the potential issue of spam, I will not sell it to anyone who posts to this thread or contacts me as a result of this thread.

 

From a business perspective, I would price it at what I believe the value of the coin is, regardless of what I paid for it. Every dealer, from time to time, has coins that have to be sold at a loss because they have paid too much. Extra gains on an occasional coin offset the occasional losses.

 

100% correct

[MarkFeld]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

 

Sorry, James, I think your analogy is off base. Finding a coin and trying to sell it at many multiples of (essentially zero) cost is entirely different. In my case, the coin wasn't found, but rather, obtained via auction, with large exposure, and viewers/bidders had their say regarding value.

[AnkurJ]

You should charge what you were originally going to price it at. It shouldn't matter what you paid for the coin.

[coinman_23885]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

 

Sorry, James, I think your analogy is off base. Finding a coin and trying to sell it at many multiples of (essentially zero) cost is entirely different. In my case, the coin wasn't found, but rather, obtained via auction, with large exposure, and viewers/bidders had their say regarding value.

 

But with all due respect, I don't believe that your distinction is particularly meaningful. The price you paid is not relevant to the price that you charge (or should charge) a customer in my opinion. Moreover a single transaction does not constitute the entire market. Maybe Heritage's crumby photos made the coin realize less. This is certainly a possibility.

 

Toners in and of themselves are difficult to price fairly in my opinion.

 

P.S. If you are worried about it ask (Greattoning) or Shane (Kryptonitecomics) what they think a fair price is.

[jom]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

 

Sorry, James, I think your analogy is off base. Finding a coin and trying to sell it at many multiples of (essentially zero) cost is entirely different. In my case, the coin wasn't found, but rather, obtained via auction, with large exposure, and viewers/bidders had their say regarding value.

 

So what you are implying is that because the Morgan got large exposure you feel like a "pig" for asking FMV as opposed to finding a 55 DDO on the sidewalk (no exposure) then it's OK asking FMV? I don't see your logic here....why aren't both coins worth FMV? What difference does the buying/finding of the coin have to do with any of it?

 

jom

[newprepper]

Its not like you cheated anybody out of it to resell. you bought it at THAT MARKETS fair value, and you should sell it at your markets fair value

[MJ]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

 

Sorry, James, I think your analogy is off base. Finding a coin and trying to sell it at many multiples of (essentially zero) cost is entirely different. In my case, the coin wasn't found, but rather, obtained via auction, with large exposure, and viewers/bidders had their say regarding value.

 

So what you are implying is that because the Morgan got large exposure you feel like a "pig" for asking FMV as opposed to finding a 55 DDO on the sidewalk (no exposure) then it's OK asking FMV? I don't see your logic here....why aren't both coins worth FMV? What difference does the buying/finding of the coin have to do with any of it?

 

jom

 

i see the logic and insinuated to why earlier in the thread. You did also in one of your replies. Often dealers get ripped to shreds for charging 30-40% more on fresh post auction purchases on the same perimeters Mark spelled out in his OP. i have seen that here and ATS. You know, "greedy dealers syndrome". I think Mark's business model and hook is that he is known for working on skinny margins and it's a rep he would like to maintain. his Morgan presents a fair dilemma for him albeit a small one in the grand scheme of things. I understand his trepidation.

 

Again I think he should charge $500, but I don't think he will

 

MJ

[jesbroken]

Mark,

Come on now. FMV is the only thing you can charge for this coin under a normal business transaction(in other words not to a close friend or business acquaintance or a super business acquantance). Why would you sell it for anything less than its fair market value. I cannot imagine a scenario that would require a reduction in price below what the coin is actually worth. We all know what an honest person you are, from years of conversing on the forums, but to fall into a trap of "I only paid $ for the coin" is not a very good business practice at all.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you make the correct call for your own benefit, whether it be profit or morally satisfying.

Jim

[FishyOne]

I'll buy it for $275 just to put your mind at ease.

[Keigwin]

I didn't read all the posts. But I'd like to ask why does the price you paid for it matter?

 

You should price it at what you think it is worth, Mark.

Lance.

[MarkFeld]

What you paid for a coin has nothing to do with what you may charge for it, and it bothers me when people think otherwise.

 

In other words, if I find an AU 1955 DDO cent in change at the cost of 1c, does that mean I am only entitled to a "fair" profit of, say, $200? Nonsense! I am perfectly allowed to charge full retail value.

 

Please charge the full asking price that you believe to be appropriate for the coin in that grade (with that toning). Ignore any naysayers.

 

Sorry, James, I think your analogy is off base. Finding a coin and trying to sell it at many multiples of (essentially zero) cost is entirely different. In my case, the coin wasn't found, but rather, obtained via auction, with large exposure, and viewers/bidders had their say regarding value.

 

So what you are implying is that because the Morgan got large exposure you feel like a "pig" for asking FMV as opposed to finding a 55 DDO on the sidewalk (no exposure) then it's OK asking FMV? I don't see your logic here....why aren't both coins worth FMV? What difference does the buying/finding of the coin have to do with any of it?

 

jom

 

No, that is not what I was implying. One of the main points of this thread is that often it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to determine what FMV is.

 

Many people would argue that FMV is what the coin sold for, and not what I would have paid for it. Some of them and others might also argue that FMV at a later point in time is whatever I could get for the coin.

 

More later, about my thought process and what I plan to do.

 

I didn't read all the posts. But I'd like to ask why does the price you paid for it matter?

 

You should price it at what you think it is worth, Mark.

Lance.

 

Lance, I agree with you to a point. The difficulty, however, in determining what I think it's worth is trying to reconcile the difference between what I was willing to pay and what the rest of the auction participants valued the coin at. In other words, I don't feel that I should completely disregard the consensus valuation of the coin. My only remaining question is to what extent I am willing to disregard it.

[960Coins-migration]

FMV is always tricky. If you were prepared to buy it for $423, all it would have taken is just one single person to have thought the same and the auction result would have made it look like that was "FMV", even if everyone else though that was overpriced. It could have been that there were people who did think it was worth that, but they had their money in something else, or they were travelling, or had internet connection problems...

 

While it's true that the visibility of the auction can lead to raised eyebrows if you were to price it at your original price point, it's also true that many times good coins will receive offers immediately after selling in an auction. As you know better than me and most, final auction prices aren't always the best indicators of real value. That doesn't stop people from seeing the auction records though.

 

If you feel like avoiding a potential hit on "goodwill" from customers (I'd feel the same), you can maybe split the difference between the original markup and what the actual markup would be, that's most likely what I would do. Someone is likely to see it as a great deal, and you'd still be making what you needed to for your business.

 

I liked coinman's quote "Extra gains on an occasional coin offset the occasional losses." But I enjoy the opportunity to give a customer a great deal by passing along a great deal I got myself. I think that's much more valuable than a few extra percentage points profit.

[erickso1]

As a buyer, if I found the auction record for that coin, I would not assume that you were the one who picked it up at auction. I would think there was a chance, but I would also feel there was a chance that someone else picked it up and flipped it to you. Selling at what you felt was your max $ would leave all parties involved happy.....assuming the buyer was a person like me.

[WinstonWare]

Agree with MJ. Around $400.

[coinman1794]

Mark,

 

In the case of this specific coin, I don't think it is anything spectacular for an 81-S rainbow dollar. The colors, while bright, are rather minimal in surface area. The biggest thing going for this coin is the STAR designation. From my point of view, I would not bid $433 to get it, but maybe $300 hoping to get $375-$400. That said, if you have a client base that would pay $500 for a coin like this, then that's what it should be priced at.

[Dudley the 1st]

Mark, re-sell it for your maximum bid dollar amount, $423.00

[delta]

I'll second the similar input from most others who said it should be priced according to what you honestly feel is the actual current value, or maybe at just a tad less.

 

Why should you be penalized for finding a bargain?

 

Conversely, you should not be rewarded for overpaying. If you overpaid, and are stuck with something, and ultimately sell for a loss just to get rid of it, isn't that just part of doing business?

 

If you found a bargain in other places, and not in a high-falutin auction with archived visibility, would you approach the matter any differently?

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I'll second the similar input from most others who said it should be priced according to what you honestly feel is the actual current value, or maybe at just a tad less.

 

Why should you be penalized for finding a bargain?

 

Conversely, you should not be rewarded for overpaying. If you overpaid, and are stuck with something, and ultimately sell for a loss just to get rid of it, isn't that just part of doing business?

 

If you found a bargain in other places, and not in a high-falutin auction with archived visibility, would you approach the matter any differently?

 

The observations, certainly not unreasonable, might not be on a firm foundation.

 

It has not been determined that it is a bargain, nor has it been determined that he will be penalized. Is it determined that a reward would be had for overpaying (what about underpaying?)?

 

I don't think the dilemma is solved by the bargain/not bargain approach.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[MarkFeld]

I'll second the similar input from most others who said it should be priced according to what you honestly feel is the actual current value, or maybe at just a tad less.

 

Why should you be penalized for finding a bargain?

 

Conversely, you should not be rewarded for overpaying. If you overpaid, and are stuck with something, and ultimately sell for a loss just to get rid of it, isn't that just part of doing business?

 

If you found a bargain in other places, and not in a high-falutin auction with archived visibility, would you approach the matter any differently?

 

But how do I know if it was a bargain? Or, for that matter, if I overpaid? Often, FMV is very difficult to pinpoint. More than anything else, that is what I am trying to get across here.

 

Maybe a collector would be happy to pay $400 or $500 or $600 for it. But that doesn't mean I should price it at that level.

 

Bottom line, admittedly, rightly or wrongly, I am influenced at least somewhat by what coins bring at auction.

 

I realize, that for various reasons, sometimes coins fall through the cracks and sell at bargain prices.

 

And typically, if I acquire a coin at what seems like an especially good/low price, I will mark it up by more than usual. Likewise, if I have to stretch to buy a coin and feel that I have paid a very strong price, I will mark it up by less than usual.

 

Currently the coin is out to be imaged. But when I get it back, I plan to reexamine it.

 

My best guess is that I will list it for sale at $400. Before I started this thread and received your replies, I had planned to list it at $375.

 

If I later receive feedback on it from potential buyers, I will try to remember to report back here.

 

Thanks to all for your thoughtful replies.

[L1ncolnF4n]

I wouldn't list a price at all. Consider offers on it and if someone offers a bit above what you paid you might accept it.

[MarkFeld]

I wouldn't list a price at all. Consider offers on it and if someone offers a bit above what you paid you might accept it.

 

I don't like it when a seller has an item for sale and doesn't quote a price. So I wont do that to others.

 

I don't think it's good business, and often, sellers who do such are looking for people to offer/pay too much.

[newprepper]

There were quite a few posts last week about how coins at the convention last week were being sold early at the listed prices. The auction you bought that coin from may have suffered because people spent more than they planned to last week. I would price it at my original price and sit on it for a while, Consider your usual turnaround from purchase to sale and let that guide you to when to reduce the price, what have you got to lose? A little time?

[L1ncolnF4n]

I wouldn't list a price at all. Consider offers on it and if someone offers a bit above what you paid you might accept it.

 

I don't like it when a seller has an item for sale and doesn't quote a price. So I wont do that to others.

 

I don't think it's good business, and often, sellers who do such are looking for people to offer/pay too much.

 

To each his own. I've found that offer-items work well for me, especially when you're not looking to turn them quickly and are rather open to what you'll get for them.

 

I don't have it up at the moment, but I recall someone jokingly said if they found a 55/55 in pocket change they'd make a profit margin that put your to shame...well, I've had a find like that, pulling a 22 plain out of a $2 roll I purchased...you win some and you lose some, this seems like a winner to me.

[Ducksoup]

FMV is whatever many people are willing to pay for an item. FMV is also relative to the people the item is exposed to. Millionaires have a different fmv than people living paycheck to paycheck. Boston has a different fmv than Detroit. Fmv vs. goodwill and repeat customers is what your really trying to determine here. Is an extra $100 ($500 vs $400) going to cost you that much or more in future business?

[newprepper]

While the extra 100 doesn't mean much in the long run, it changes the expectation of the customer, when they return and are expected to pay actual FMV they are disappointed because his prices were so cheap last time, unless you are upfront about why so cheap. Its like doing business with family and friends, when the deals disappear, so does the business. Having honest fair prices will do more in the long run than super cheap deals here and there. (In my opinion) unless its a reward for an extra special customer and you tell them, hey I found something you might like and because I got it at a special price I'm able to offer it at a great price

[cpm9ball]

There were quite a few posts last week about how coins at the convention last week were being sold early at the listed prices. The auction you bought that coin from may have suffered because people spent more than they planned to last week. I would price it at my original price and sit on it for a while, Consider your usual turnaround from purchase to sale and let that guide you to when to reduce the price, what have you got to lose? A little time?

 

Probably not! The 81-S is a common date known for a nice strike and the optimal collecting grade is MS65. Even thought it received a star, I'm personally not all that thrilled by the toning. It takes two or more bidders chasing the same coin to drive the price higher, so there may have been others who felt the same way that I do.

 

Chris