uxler-migration Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Just acquired a bunch of proof sets from 1969 through 2001. The Proof Sets are seemingly worth very little as a whole, and the money/opportunity seems to be in finding a PR60 or PR70 among them. I dont have much of an eye for grading yet and I'm wondering what to look for when deciding to A. Crack open the proof packaging and/or B. send a coin for grading. Even with a novice eye, I can see some imperfections that would warrant not wasting my time with grading. But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Id hate to sell these sets for $5 - 10 and have a gem among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coinman_23885 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's futile, and most won't be worth the costs of grading them unless you have deep cameo or very nice, high grade cameos from the 1968-1971 (or before) group. You will spend more in grading fees that you will receive for the coins themselves. Edited to add: Unless you have a lot of experience grading coins (professionally), the likelihood of you picking out the "PF70s" is minimal. I use quotations around the grade because some would argue that true "PF70s" don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkman123 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 probably not worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 If you break these out to have them graded I can guarantee that you will lose a significant amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM F. Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I suggest you do not break them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bochiman Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Unless I am at a casino, or playing the lottery, I only gamble on a "sure thing". In this case, I would bet you quite a bit that if you cracked them out to submit them, then you would not get any PR60 nor any PR70 from one of the top 2 TPGSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStull Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Just acquired a bunch of proof sets from 1969 through 2001. The Proof Sets are seemingly worth very little as a whole, and the money/opportunity seems to be in finding a PR60 or PR70 among them. I dont have much of an eye for grading yet and I'm wondering what to look for when deciding to A. Crack open the proof packaging and/or B. send a coin for grading. Even with a novice eye, I can see some imperfections that would warrant not wasting my time with grading. But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Id hate to sell these sets for $5 - 10 and have a gem among them. You could study grading coins for 10 years, and I doubt you could spot a PR70. THe majority here couldn't, including myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpm9ball Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You could study grading coins for 10 years, and I doubt you could spot a PR70. THe majority here couldn't, including myself. When it comes to proof sets directly from the Mint, it's really easy. If it ain't a PF69UCAM, it's a PF70UCAM! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillJones Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 If you open these sets it will proably be a double loss. Ordinary sets are traded in the original mint packaging. The best deals for those are the sets with nice boxes and cases. As a collector that what I want. Sets that have been broken out of the holders sell for even less than the depressed prices you get for sets in the holders. As the slab grades you might get, the sets from the late '60 and the '70s seldom yeild better than PR-67 or 68 coins, and those are worth very little. For the later sets PR-69 coins don't cut it. They are the ones I buy for $20 to complete my registry type set. The dealer witll buy them back for $5. In other words, with the late date Proof sets, it's PR-70, super DCam or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1ncolnF4n Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Unless they are causing you personal injury, leave them alone. Some future owner might appreciate them in original condition, not gunked up in a sterile plastic holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 When it comes to proof sets directly from the Mint, it's really easy. If it ain't a PF69UCAM, it's a PF70UCAM! True for very recent sets, but for the earlier sets he is talking about most will grade PF-65 to 67 and most of the coins from the earliest sets probably wouldn't even get a CAM designation unless he specifically selects for it on his submissions. Even then the chances of getting better than a CAM designation is slight at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messydesk Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 ... But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. You're still looking through a plastic holder, which can hide enough imperfections to disqualify a coin from PR70. TPGs will not do crossovers at 70 for this reason. Enjoy the proof sets for what they are. In addition to costing you a lot of money to have graded that you'll never recover, they'll take up more space once in slabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillJones Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 When it comes to proof sets directly from the Mint, it's really easy. If it ain't a PF69UCAM, it's a PF70UCAM! True for very recent sets, but for the earlier sets he is talking about most will grade PF-65 to 67 and most of the coins from the earliest sets probably wouldn't even get a CAM designation unless he specifically selects for it on his submissions. Even then the chances of getting better than a CAM designation is slight at best. Sadly even that is not true given some of the junk the mint is shipping in Proof sets these days. When I went to my local dealer to buy a 2012 clad Proof sets, I was appalled at low quality. Most of the Presidential dollars were spotted; there were "holes" in the Proof surfaces in the fields; some of the cents had spots; and a couple coins had small scratches. In other words a goodly number of the coins less than PR-69. They were more like PR-66 or less. Yesterday I bought my 2012 silver set from the same dealer. This time the quality was much better. There were only a couple coins with spots among the two sets, and one of the quarters had a small but noticeable scratch. Fortunately I was able to put together a nice set. Still buying Proof sets from the mint is a real throw of the dice these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bochiman Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 ... But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. You're still looking through a plastic holder, which can hide enough imperfections to disqualify a coin from PR70. TPGs will not do crossovers at 70 for this reason. Enjoy the proof sets for what they are. In addition to costing you a lot of money to have graded that you'll never recover, they'll take up more space once in slabs. To add to the above....and I mean no disrespect by this, but the very question and the statement that some of them look flawless to your eye, tells me that you are pretty new to the coins and new to understanding the grading and the grading services. You would be doing yourself a large financial disservice if you were to crack them out and submit....only way to do that, and win, would be to be a very lucky gambler. Take a look at the years in question and look at the grading services' population in PR70 for the coins....that will give you an idea of the odds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Pecora Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Here's the link from PGCS: https://www.pcgs.com/prices/priceguidedetail.aspx?c=932&title=proof+sets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAULEMALL Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Paul Pecora said: Here's the link from PGCS: https://www.pcgs.com/prices/priceguidedetail.aspx?c=932&title=proof+sets they are all Pr 70... Till you ask someone else's opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 On 7/24/2012 at 10:51 PM, uxler-migration said: Just acquired a bunch of proof sets from 1969 through 2001. The Proof Sets are seemingly worth very little as a whole, and the money/opportunity seems to be in finding a PR60 or PR70 among them. I dont have much of an eye for grading yet and I'm wondering what to look for when deciding to A. Crack open the proof packaging and/or B. send a coin for grading. Even with a novice eye, I can see some imperfections that would warrant not wasting my time with grading. But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Id hate to sell these sets for $5 - 10 and have a gem among them. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohawk Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) On 7/24/2012 at 11:51 PM, uxler-migration said: Just acquired a bunch of proof sets from 1969 through 2001. The Proof Sets are seemingly worth very little as a whole, and the money/opportunity seems to be in finding a PR60 or PR70 among them. I dont have much of an eye for grading yet and I'm wondering what to look for when deciding to A. Crack open the proof packaging and/or B. send a coin for grading. Even with a novice eye, I can see some imperfections that would warrant not wasting my time with grading. But quite a few look nearly flawless to my eye and have what I'd consider to be a PR70 look. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Id hate to sell these sets for $5 - 10 and have a gem among them. I agree with what everyone else has said, especially since you admit yourself that you don't have much of an eye for grading yet. You would likely lose a lot of money grading......I send a lot of coins off for grading, and I usually do quite well, but sometimes I have some unpleasant surprises and I've been collecting in some way since I was 8, back in 1988, and I've been consistently involved in numismatics since 1999. I didn't send my first coin in for grading until 2006, and even after 7 years doing it, my first submission wasn't so hot. It's taken even more years to develop an eye to evaluate what is worth sending in. It takes a lot of work and many learning blunders to get an eye developed, trust me, and it takes a long time. You said you have a run from 1969-2001? Well, one thing you might want to do is look for varieties in the sets. There are good varieties in some of those years, such as the 1970-S Small Date Cent, the 1979 and 1981 Type 2 coins and the Close "AM" Proof Cents from 1998 and 1999. Those could increase the value of what you have substantially. NGC's Variety Plus is a great resource to see all sorts of varieties that can be found in Proof Sets from that span. Edited June 24, 2018 by Mohawk I cannot do math, even when it pertains to my own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINCOLNMAN Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Um, the question was posted six years ago, yes? Good topic but a little late to advise the OP (by now he/she might be able to grade a 70). Can be confusing as heck when these threads are resurrected. Somewhat off-topic, I'm one of those who doesn't believe that 70 is a legitimate grade. Perfection is something to be sought after, but never achieved. Marketing humbug say I. numisport 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, LINCOLNMAN said: Um, the question was posted six years ago, yes? Good topic but a little late to advise the OP (by now he/she might be able to grade a 70). Can be confusing as heck when these threads are resurrected. Somewhat off-topic, I'm one of those who doesn't believe that 70 is a legitimate grade. Perfection is something to be sought after, but never achieved. Marketing humbug say I. According to their published standards, perfection is not required by the major grading companies for a grade of 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numisport Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 hours ago, LINCOLNMAN said: Um, the question was posted six years ago, yes? Good topic but a little late to advise the OP (by now he/she might be able to grade a 70). Can be confusing as heck when these threads are resurrected. Somewhat off-topic, I'm one of those who doesn't believe that 70 is a legitimate grade. Perfection is something to be sought after, but never achieved. Marketing humbug say I. I'm one of those people too..... I mean off topic and don't believe 70 is a legitimate grade. It took many years with no 70 grades until today the old schooler has to assume that proof 70 might mean the coin is worth 70 times a Pf 01. Pssst.... things change I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINCOLNMAN Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 hours ago, MarkFeld said: According to their published standards, perfection is not required by the major grading companies for a grade of 70. Yes I appreciate the cool things that the TPG's have unselfishly created to enhance our enjoyment of the hobby in the last 30 years. But...old school, I guess. Seems like splitting hairs at that level of preservation. Maybe if I got new glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Arrius Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 7/26/2012 at 8:37 AM, messydesk said: You're still looking through a plastic holder, which can hide enough imperfections to disqualify a coin from PR70. TPGs will not do crossovers at 70 for this reason. Enjoy the proof sets for what they are. In addition to costing you a lot of money to have graded that you'll never recover, they'll take up more space once in slabs. I know. Ten years. But I had to think this one through. Conclusion: As valid now as the day it was written. 🐓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
