Latest Legend Hot Topics featuring a puttied $10 Indian

[Oldtrader3]

My mistake EVP, I thought that you had.

[Oldtrader3]

Bondo or Bondex is required by FTC regulations to contain a UV marker agent or die. The reason for this is obvious in that crooks (car doctors) have been Bondo'ing wrecked cars and selling them for new for over 1/2 century now. That is why, if it is Bondo, I suggested using a Black (UV) light on it.

 

This place is like a black hole of knowledge! You pour suggestions which are not related to "how do I grade my XF Morgan" and they are sucked into the hole and nobody ever mentions them again!

[e1cnr]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

[coinman_23885]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

 

But the putty is undetectable until after it ages, or at least it was when these coins was certified. Won't PCGS's mass spectroscopy technique (i.e. the "sniffer") identify this on the surface of a coin? I would think so.

[Kurtdog]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a problem for the TPGs and CAC and their buy-back guarantees. They know who submitted these coins, and that's a fact. All they have to do is publish that factual information, and let the public draw their own conclusions. They're not defaming anybody, as they're representing fact. This, more than anything anybody could do, would keep these submitters on their toes.

[MarkFeld]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a problem for the TPGs and CAC and their buy-back guarantees. They know who submitted these coins, and that's a fact. All they have to do is publish that factual information, and let the public draw their own conclusions. They're not defaming anybody, as they're representing fact. This, more than anything anybody could do, would keep these submitters on their toes.

 

If the grading companies were going to publish information concerning the identities of coin submitters, they would probably lose a vast amount of business. Non-coin doctor submitters would have perfectly valid and sensible reasons for not wanting their names published.

[Kurtdog]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a problem for the TPGs and CAC and their buy-back guarantees. They know who submitted these coins, and that's a fact. All they have to do is publish that factual information, and let the public draw their own conclusions. They're not defaming anybody, as they're representing fact. This, more than anything anybody could do, would keep these submitters on their toes.

If the grading companies were going to publish information concerning the identities of coin submitters, they would probably lose a vast amount of business. Non-coin doctor submitters would have perfectly valid and sensible reasons for not wanting their names published.

And it would keep "non-coin doctor submitters" on their toes, now, wouldn't it?

 

The problem is the TPGs and CAC want the best of both worlds. They want to do something about these coins getting into their slabs, they have the means to do it. Business imperatives dictate otherwise to them, that's their problem, not mine.

[MarkFeld]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a problem for the TPGs and CAC and their buy-back guarantees. They know who submitted these coins, and that's a fact. All they have to do is publish that factual information, and let the public draw their own conclusions. They're not defaming anybody, as they're representing fact. This, more than anything anybody could do, would keep these submitters on their toes.

If the grading companies were going to publish information concerning the identities of coin submitters, they would probably lose a vast amount of business. Non-coin doctor submitters would have perfectly valid and sensible reasons for not wanting their names published.

And it would keep "non-coin doctor submitters" on their toes, now, wouldn't it?

 

The problem is the TPGs and CAC want the best of both worlds. They want to do something about these coins getting into their slabs, they have the means to do it. Business imperatives dictate otherwise to them, that's their problem, not mine.

 

It would keep some coin doctors "on their toes". But I don't think the grading companies could afford the huge hits to their business. They are likely much better off, continuing to pay under their guarantees, for the coins that are discovered to have been doctored.

[e1cnr]

I suspect that most coins with substances do get caught and only a few get through.

 

I don't look at much gold, but have seen a few 50's DCAM proofs that the frosting turned light blue and spread onto the fields. 50's DCAM proofs are many times more valuable due to the registry craze. A vicious cycle started and maintained by the TPGs and dealers for submissions and high values, being fueled by the competetive nature of many registry set owners.

 

These high values (both dollars and registry points) are what lead to some people becoming less than ethical for both prestige and dollars ... it is human nature, that a few will always try to get more with less.

 

[Kurtdog]

it really sucks,

 

but detecting doctored coins should be the job of the TPG before they get into a slab

 

that is why we collectors pay so much to get coins certified and to buy coins that are already certified

 

it is more difficult to examine coin surfaces after enslabbed

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a problem for the TPGs and CAC and their buy-back guarantees. They know who submitted these coins, and that's a fact. All they have to do is publish that factual information, and let the public draw their own conclusions. They're not defaming anybody, as they're representing fact. This, more than anything anybody could do, would keep these submitters on their toes.

If the grading companies were going to publish information concerning the identities of coin submitters, they would probably lose a vast amount of business. Non-coin doctor submitters would have perfectly valid and sensible reasons for not wanting their names published.

And it would keep "non-coin doctor submitters" on their toes, now, wouldn't it?

 

The problem is the TPGs and CAC want the best of both worlds. They want to do something about these coins getting into their slabs, they have the means to do it. Business imperatives dictate otherwise to them, that's their problem, not mine.

 

It would keep some coin doctors "on their toes". But I don't think the grading companies could afford the huge hits to their business. They are likely much better off, continuing to pay under their guarantees, for the coins that are discovered to have been doctored.

Then, we get it--you don't putty coins. Let it go at that (that aspirational ethic, if you will). Keep driving home the point, and standing by their slabs. From a business standpoint, I'm saying, Mark, you're probably right. In fact, that's probably the whole reason they haven't done what they could to this point.

[crypto79-migration]

 

As for EVP....he is top shelf and I think that sentiment is pretty universal here and ATS.

 

MJ

 

X2

 

I can not post ATS. The powers that be (over there) can not handle anything resembling an overly sensitive poster prone to unfounded generalizations and verbal hissy fits

 

I went ahead and fixed it for you, no need to thank me

[AnkurJ]

101

[Oldtrader3]

Bingo! The real truth finally leaks out from under the clouds of obfuscation! Thank you Mark, I was not going to state that universal truth about money controlling gold coin grading integrity, because the TPG's could indeed easily and cheaply fix this puttying problem.

 

I personally, even in my old age and engineering infirmity can think of at least a half dozen ideas that would not cost much and would detect putty at least 99% of the time. I have already stated some of these, hence the remarks about "Black Holes" for ideas here.

 

I am too old to work this hard in order to get a straight answer from anyone who knows anything about the realities of this hobby and our coin doctors. Just all thank your local God that I do not work for the State Attorney's Office and have not the energy our interest to blow the whistle on the gratuitous and egregious unfairness to collectors in this hobby! The hobby should ideally, clean it self up!

 

This especially applies to EVP who is perfectly well aware of the skullduggery which goes on in this hobby and pillories me instead of being honest with people! He is part of a major coin dealership, so stop being part of the problem, EVP! John Curlis, you can go back to your diaper jokes now to untrack any thread that you wish. I have nothing against you personally.

 

I just was forced to wade through the three miles of baloney to get a straight answer from the source! If I had said this to begin with, unstead of Mark saying it, you all would have denigrated me and called me names for a month! I know how things work here, it is shameful or maybe shameless is a better word.

[EVillageProwler]

This especially applies to EVP who is perfectly well aware of the skullduggery which goes on in this hobby and pillories me instead of being honest with people! He is part of a major coin dealership, so stop being part of the problem, EVP! John Curlis, you can go back to your diaper jokes now to untrack any thread that you wish. I have nothing against you personally.

 

OT3,

 

Ok, for the last time, you have me confused with someone else. I have never lived in Spokane and am not part of a coin dealership major or otherwise. I am very cozy with a couple of dealers, but I am a veteran IT person in the Investment Banking industry.

 

However, even if it were true that I'm part of a major dealership, how is that being "part of the problem"? I detect an anti-dealer sentiment in your commentary, but I hardly think it is constructive to paint all dealers with the same brush.

 

I would like you to do me a favor: do not mention me, or address me, or in any way engage with me. I will extend the same courtesy to you. I think this forum is big enough for the both of us.

 

Sincerely,

 

The non-dealer EVP

[Kurtdog]

OT3, why don't you just make your points and lay off the personalities?

 

EVP, I think I may be beginning to get the idea.

[erickso1]

I grew up just south of Spokane.

 

Maybe you are confusing EVP with erickso1?

 

On an off topic note. Putty = bad, stop putty.

[MarkFeld]

Bingo! The real truth finally leaks out from under the clouds of obfuscation! Thank you Mark, I was not going to state that universal truth about money controlling gold coin grading integrity, because the TPG's could indeed easily and cheaply fix this puttying problem.

 

I personally, even in my old age and engineering infirmity can think of at least a half dozen ideas that would not cost much and would detect putty at least 99% of the time. I have already stated some of these, hence the remarks about "Black Holes" for ideas here.

 

I am too old to work this hard in order to get a straight answer from anyone who knows anything about the realities of this hobby and our coin doctors. Just all thank your local God that I do not work for the State Attorney's Office and have not the energy our interest to blow the whistle on the gratuitous and egregious unfairness to collectors in this hobby! The hobby should ideally, clean it self up!

 

This especially applies to EVP who is perfectly well aware of the skullduggery which goes on in this hobby and pillories me instead of being honest with people! He is part of a major coin dealership, so stop being part of the problem, EVP! John Curlis, you can go back to your diaper jokes now to untrack any thread that you wish. I have nothing against you personally.

 

I just ws forced to wade through the three miles of baloney to get a straight answer from the source! If I had said this to begin with, unstead of Mark saying it, you all would have denigrated me and called me names for a month! I know how things work here, it is shameful or maybe shameless is a better word.

 

I see no indication that anyone here has attempted to obfuscate on the subject of coin doctoring.

And you don't seem willing or able to realize that posters to this thread don't disagree that coin doctoring is widespread and a bad thing. Your comments are largely misdirected.

[Oldtrader3]

EVP, fine, I will do that, but in return, leave me absolutely alone, please! How is that for a trade? I do not want to know you, talk to you or interface with you at all.

 

For the record, after 50 years in this hobby, it is absolutely certain that anyone who is a collector has been cheated by a large number of scabarous dealers over the years, not all or even most mind you, but too many to be nice about being a pigeon to these thieves!. Which begs the question: why dealers offend me when they rob me? Duh! I guess that to be a nice and accepted collector, you have to roll over and play dead for crooked dealers and not complain?

 

Mark, we agree to disagree for sure!

[mkman123]

Oldtrader, you should work with mark feld and tomB, really good and fair dealers.

[Oldtrader3]

Mark, I do realize that others agree that is is not good for the hobby. Read my earlier complaint again. When a world class dealer will not pull an obvously puttied coin and lies about it selling for less in auction, this is an issue for every gold collector to be concerned about. The was my point and my only point from the beginning, so don't put words in my mouth!

 

Somewhere during our lives, truth, fairness and verity need to be part of who we are. When you get to be my age, if you have any wisdom, you will begin to realise this. At that point coin collecting becomes more amusing as largely a scam, more than an interest or hobby. Kind of like Investment Banking, no value added but many little people screwed financially to capitalise the deals!

 

This especially in light of all the skullduggery pervasive on ebay and no controls even considered by anyone to stop the chicanery, makes this hobby one of the least productive in the world for creating personal wealth. Only the crooks and very wealthy make any real money by design!