Latest Legend Hot Topics featuring a puttied $10 Indian

[MarkFeld]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

 

I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum.

[MJ]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

 

I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum.

 

Seriously OT3 what was that all about? I'm still scratching my head. MJ

[James_OldeTowne]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

Well, I will say this. I am through approximately 100 gold coins for our next auction, and I have found exactly one with putty on it (1%). It's in a PCGS green-label holder, graded MS-63. (Of course, I could have missed one.)

[mkman123]

Woohooo NGC 100% with no puttied coins in the lot James looked through

[MarkFeld]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

Well, I will say this. I am through approximately 100 gold coins for our next auction, and I have found exactly one with putty on it (1%). It's in a PCGS green-label holder, graded MS-63. (Of course, I could have missed one.)

 

James, I don t claim to know how widespread the problem is. However, putty is usually undetectable for an unknown period of time after its application. So, unless those "approximately 100" gold coins were all encapsulated many years ago, your observations aren't necessarily relevant or meaningful.

[James_OldeTowne]

James, I don t claim to know how widespread the problem is. However, putty is usually undetectable for an unknown period of time after its application. So, unless those "approximately 100" gold coins were all encapsulated many years ago, your observations aren't necessarily relevant or meaningful.

...hence my statement "I could have missed one".

 

Many of them were green-label and no-line holders, and many more are in older slabs (pre-EdgeView).

[Oldtrader3]

That would be my guess. Putty is color matched by doctors probably with the same software that paint stores use to spectrum match house paint color. Until it turns or shrinks on the edges sufficiently to lift off the coin, it is hard to see. Also, any coin which is puttied with a non-UV stable plastic, will dry out from light and UV exposure and bleach in color intensity but it takes probably 5 or more years, depending on storage methods.

 

I have made it a point for many years to carefully examine any puttied gold coins that I can examine at shows and auction lots. I am only interested primarily in gold coins from 1939 to 1900 anyhow and mostly those with smaller mintages. I have found sufficient numbers to alarm me, knowing that I am only seeing the tip of the iceberg!

 

I am disabled now and quite unable to attend shows because Lympoma lung cancer destroyed my immune system. However, I still look at a large number of gold coins in internet auctions. My guess would be, that for every puttied coin that you can actually pick out visually, there are (10 ) more that you can not because they have not altered enough in shade or shape (over time) to be visible easily. I am becoming much more sensitized to "superficial haze" on coin surfaces now because this is the step before coins reveal puttying by shrinkage.

 

Most of the puttied material that I can see and pick out is material that was encapsulated 5-10 years ago or more, going by TPG serial number. So this means that all the coins doctored since then are not visible yet but is still out there! That is why I was discussing methods of non-destructive testing. If NGC and PCGS really wanted to do something about doctors and their crimes, they have the technology available now to do so. That is the sum and substance of my beef!

 

I appolgise that it took so much explanation to get to this point in the discussion. I guess that many dealers do not handle older gold coins routinely and there needed to be some technique based analysis transfer?

[Oldtrader3]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

 

I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum.

 

Seriously OT3 what was that all about? I'm still scratching my head. MJ

 

MJ, you do this to me everytime that I post a critical analysis of an issue which I feel is a problem to the hobby. You always ask what this is about? Always as though as though my english is not comprehensible to you and/or you have no senstitivity to these issues. Maybe you just do not get it? Or maybe you are trying to minimise what I am saying in some way because you have no comprehension of the issue.

 

Either way, I do not have any idea on how to repond to you because you act like there is no issue which you can see? I have no idea what your issue is with these definitions and problem descriptions that others seem to understand just fine! Are you burying me in inconsequencialness or are you minimizing a problem that you just do not have the insight and knowledge to see?

[Oldtrader3]

Mark, do not patronise me. I was collecting gold coins when you were in diapers. You know perfectly well what the problem is and are trying to bury it by minimalising the issue and pretending that it is not a problem which is what you always do to control controversial issues like these which you wish to play down. So, you like most politicians, shoot the messenger.

[pianoman]

Ankur

Thank you for starting this thread.

 

As I collect a subset of the Indian Eagles (Philly issues), of this coin I am troubled by what I see here. Like Old Trader I have shied away from a hazy coin thinking intuitively perhaps that there is something not quite right with them.

 

Can anyone tell me what the reason is as to why this TPG graded linked coin is not graded better than unc details on E**Y? It is in a new holder can the TPG's spot the putty issues now better than 5-10 years ago? Should I concentrate my interests in the new holders and the very oldest holders only?

 

Here is the E**Y link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Indian-10-Gold-Coin-PCGS-Genuine-UNC-Details-Very-Choice-BU-Eagle-AKR-/200790585616?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2ec00d3110#ht_2161wt_1163

[AnkurJ]

With the PCGS sniffer, I'm sure they catch putty more often. If coins altered with putty are of concern to you, you should stick with CAC approved coins in my opinion.

[MarkFeld]

Mark, do not patronise me. I was collecting gold coins when you were in diapers. You know perfectly well what the problem is and are trying to bury it by minimalising the issue and pretending that it is not a problem which is what you always do to control controversial issues like these which you wish to play down. So, you like most politicians, shoot the messenger.

 

In case that post was directed at me...

 

I was not patronizing you in any way.

 

And I challenge you to back up your accusation "You know perfectly well what the problem is and are trying to bury it by minimalising the issue and pretending that it is not a problem which is what you always do to control controversial issues like these which you wish to play down".

 

I already posted in this thread that it (puttying) was likely more widespread than James might have gathered from his observations. And I have been extremely outspoken over a long period of time on the subject of coin doctoring.

 

I still do not understand the post of yours (below), to which I replied earlier. And apparently, neither did MJ.

 

Which dealers ATS were you speaking of, when you wrote " big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!"?

 

And contrary to what you stated, clearly not all dealers look the other way.

 

I will repeat what I said earlier "I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum."

 

 

 

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

 

I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum.

[EVillageProwler]

Why do folks respond to OT3?

 

He doesn't seem to be able to contribute effectively and positively around here, and for as long as I've been reading his posts it seems he lives in his own reality-distorted world.

 

He's said in the past that I insulted him (I think by looking down at his collecting habits), but has never clarified. As far as I know, I've never cared on iota about OT3's collecting habits because he likes gold and that is not an area in which I have interest or much knowledge.

 

It would be nice if he were to re-read his posts before submitting.

 

Sheesh!

 

EVP

 

PS Who thinks OT3 will respond to this post with overwhelming vitriol laced with incomprehension?

[jom]

Why do folks respond to OT3?

 

He doesn't seem to be able to contribute effectively and positively around here, and for as long as I've been reading his posts it seems he lives in his own reality-distorted world.

 

Besides that it is hard for me to picture Mark Feld in diapers....

 

jom

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Why do folks respond to OT3?

 

He doesn't seem to be able to contribute effectively and positively around here, and for as long as I've been reading his posts it seems he lives in his own reality-distorted world.

 

Besides that it is hard for me to picture Mark Feld in diapers....

 

jom

 

It may not be so hard, if you simply consider the possible alternative picture if diapers were not present....

 

Respectfully (I think),

John Curlis

[MJ]

James, it is a scam, it cheats people out of money, it ought to stop! I do not give fiddler's d*mn about the fact that it is not every other coin. It is a lot of advanced collector coins over the years and even I have been had by this crooked faker dishonesty of which all dealers look the other way on. You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!

 

Man I am sick of the self-perpetuated dishonesty of coin dealers! I am not talking about you James but the big mouthed dealers ATS, with food on their shirts and their poison pens who fly over to this site on their brooms everytime somebody delivers a well deserved t*rd in their punchbowl!

 

I don't know whom you're speaking of, but your comments certainly sound overly broad and unfair. And I don't think that most of the prolific coin doctors even post here or on the PCGS forum.

 

Seriously OT3 what was that all about? I'm still scratching my head. MJ

 

MJ, you do this to me everytime that I post a critical analysis of an issue which I feel is a problem to the hobby. You always ask what this is about? Always as though as though my english is not comprehensible to you and/or you have no senstitivity to these issues. Maybe you just do not get it? Or maybe you are trying to minimise what I am saying in some way because you have no comprehension of the issue.

 

Either way, I do not have any idea on how to repond to you because you act like there is no issue which you can see? I have no idea what your issue is with these definitions and problem descriptions that others seem to understand just fine! Are you burying me in inconsequencialness or are you minimizing a poroblem that you just do not have the insight and knowledge to see?

 

I do? I honestly don't know what you mean. In this case I was responding to a rambling post made by you that came out of sequence. Who was it directed at?

 

Specifically this? OT3----"You know it is a problem and put your head in the sand like nearly every d*mned gutless dealer in this rifely dishonest hobby!". Who are you reffering to?

 

Please answer and we can go on. If not good luck to you OT3. Life is too short for like this.

 

MJ

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Back to the diaper thing for a moment, please....

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[mkman123]

Feld was too cool for diapers, he wore pullups haha

 

CAC coins may be the way to go if people are worried, however I don't think they can 100% identify a puttied coin

[MJ]

Back to the diaper thing for a moment, please....

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

[Kurtdog]

I think I agree with everything OT3 said. Now let's play nice.

[MJ]

I think I agree with everything OT3 said. Now let's play nice.

 

 

MJ

[AnkurJ]

[Oldtrader3]

I was not being derogatory to Mark, just illustrative.

 

As for you EVP, you are living proof of what I said about dealers from ATS, as always! If you can not understand what I am writing, I would suggest that you take a basic english writing course! It would help Laura as well!

 

EVP, Actually, I and my direct report, subordinate managers at work all took a Strunk and White, "Elements of Style Course" which is a basic business writing course in order to assure that we were communicating with our subordinates at the 12th grade level (maximum). This was to assure effective and across the board communication at all skilled worker levels within the organization. I write at this level on these forums and if you can not understand me clearly, I would suggest some remedial english courses to aid in your effective business communication! Strunk and White would be a good place to start if you are at least a high school graduate.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I was not being derogatory to Mark, just illustrative.

 

As for you EVP, you are living proof of what I said about dealers from ATS! As always! If you can not understand what I am writing, I suggest that you take a basic english writing course! It would help Laura as well!

 

Good Evening. Sir.

 

Your comments indicate that they are in response to my Post(s).

 

May I humbly point out that my only observations and interest in this Thread is Mr. Feld's diapers. I did not and have not concluded any derogatory nature by anybody to anybody.

 

If you can contribute to the discussion re. whether Mr. Feld used diapers or pull ups, then I would completely understand a response to my comments.

If not, then we can't assist each other.

 

Respectfully, to all,

 

John Curlis

 

 

[EVillageProwler]

OT3,

 

You are quite the spice of life. Be well, my fellow forumite.

 

EVP

[MJ]

I was not being derogatory to Mark, just illustrative.

 

As for you EVP, you are living proof of what I said about dealers from ATS! As always! If you can not understand what I am writing, I suggest that you take a basic english writing course! It would help Laura as well!

 

EVP, Actually, I and my direct report, subordinate managers at work all took a Strunk and White, "Elements of Style Course" which is a basic business writing course in order to assure that we were communicating with our subordinates at the 12th grade level (maximum). This was to assure effective and across the board communication at all skilled worker levels within the organization. I write at this level on these forums and if you can not understand me clearly, I would suggest some remedial english courses to aid in your effective business communication! Strunk and White would be a good place to start if you are a high school graduate.

 

I'm like 99.5% that EVP is not a dealer and has nothing to do with Laura. Are you mistaking him with TDN? That would explain a lot. I actually think EVP posts way more over here. MJ

[EVillageProwler]

MJ - shhh. The reality distortion field is at full crank right now.

 

Edited to add that at this moment I have 4306 posts ATS and this is my 4333rd post here. Pretty even, I guess. But, I submit that I am relatively more prolific here than ATS given the much higher traffic ATS than here overall.

 

EVP

[x2rider]

I was not being derogatory to Mark, just illustrative.

 

As for you EVP, you are living proof of what I said about dealers from ATS! As always! If you can not understand what I am writing, I suggest that you take a basic english writing course! It would help Laura as well!

 

Good Evening. Sir.

 

Your comments indicate that they are in response to my Post(s).

 

May I humbly point out that my only observations and interest in this Thread is Mr. Feld's diapers. I did not and have not concluded any derogatory nature by anybody to anybody.

 

If you can contribute to the discussion re. whether Mr. Feld used diapers or pull ups, then I would completely understand a response to my comments.

If not, then we can't assist each other.

 

Respectfully, to all,

 

John Curlis

 

 

I heard they were carved from timber from a tree only found high in the mountains of Peru

[MJ]

MJ - shhh. The reality distortion field is at full crank right now.

 

Edited to add that at this moment I have 4306 posts ATS and this is my 4333rd post here. Pretty even, I guess. But, I submit that I am relatively more prolific here than ATS given the much higher traffic ATS than here overall.

 

EVP

 

I guess reality does bite. Standing by for the snappy retort just the same. I'm betting on epic. MJ

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I was not being derogatory to Mark, just illustrative.

 

As for you EVP, you are living proof of what I said about dealers from ATS! As always! If you can not understand what I am writing, I suggest that you take a basic english writing course! It would help Laura as well!

 

EVP, Actually, I and my direct report, subordinate managers at work all took a Strunk and White, "Elements of Style Course" which is a basic business writing course in order to assure that we were communicating with our subordinates at the 12th grade level (maximum). This was to assure effective and across the board communication at all skilled worker levels within the organization. I write at this level on these forums and if you can not understand me clearly, I would suggest some remedial english courses to aid in your effective business communication! Strunk and White would be a good place to start if you are a high school graduate.

 

I'm like 99.5% that EVP is not a dealer and has nothing to do with Laura. Are you mistaking him with TDN? That would explain a lot. I actually think EVP posts way more over here. MJ

 

It doesn't explain a response to my Post(s), when all I am after is an answer to the diaper/pull ups controversy. I certainly can't be mistaken for somebody else. Nobody knows me.

 

I watch the 3 Stooges too, you know. I know confusion when I see/read it.

 

Why is everyone covering up the diaper issue, with all this other meaningless stuff?

 

That is what is really being distorted. And why bring Laura into this? I have never said anything about whether or not Laura uses diapers. I don't even know her.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis