Cherrypickers 1996 p Quarter dollar Unknown die damage Variety

[dooly]

hi all while scratching through my Holiday change lot i came across this one which seems to be "like" cherrypickers guide FS-25-1996P-701

 

 

i have marked the lines in black, the circulates are areas which look like rusted die marks you sometimes find on Morgan vam's or maybe very poor attempts to remove other lined on the die

A normal one for comparison

 

 

[RWB]

Reminds me of a die that has struck a piece of hard steel scrap. All of the marks might be from the scrap.... Just a thought.

[dooly]

Reminds me of a die that has struck a piece of hard steel scrap. All of the marks might be from the scrap.... Just a thought.

 

Cheers for the comment .. in cherrys he says "this may be the remnants of a lapped die"

[dooly]

 

a close up of the ear area

[benjmurts]

hi all while scratching through my Holiday change lot i came across this one which seems to be "like" cherrypickers guide FS-25-1996P-701

 

 

i have marked the lines in black, the circulates are areas which look like rusted die marks you sometimes find on Morgan vam's or maybe very poor attempts to remove other lined on the die

A normal one for comparison

 

 

Is this much different??

[johnny9434]

interesting piece. ill have to start watching for the now

[Conder101]

t looks like a combination of the two. The die has definitely been heavily lapped. The area in front of and below the eye shows that and the area of the neck just behind the jawline does as well. The lines are probably from a heavy scrape with some thing hard. It looks to me like the lapping came first and then the die was scraped.

[dooly]

from http://www.harrybassfoundation.org/diesintro.asp

 

Lapping and Resurfacing Dies

From time to time, dies were removed from service and replaced with other dies, or were stored for future use. When such dies were stored, they were coated with a protective layer of grease to prevent or at least delay rust. Sometimes these dies were not properly coated and developed traces of rust, a type of surface corrosion. This corrosion created tiny pits in the surface of the die, which were then transferred to the surface of coins later struck from these dies. This die rust appears on coins as tiny raised dots of metal.

 

Die lapping was a method of repairing dies to diminish or eliminate certain defects, and was primarily performed to remove clash marks. Lapping would also diminish minor die rust and could lessen or remove hairline die cracks. The process of die lapping would also remove minor portions of the design, leaving blank areas where detail once existed.

[dooly]

t looks like a combination of the two. The die has definitely been heavily lapped. The area in front of and below the eye shows that and the area of the neck just behind the jawline does as well. The lines are probably from a heavy scrape with some thing hard. It looks to me like the lapping came first and then the die was scraped.

 

? so do you think they may have found a defective die and put it in storage, then needed a die Quick and tried to sort this one out ?

[RWB]

Re: the Bass catalog comments.

 

Dies were normally used in pairs bearing the same number. If one of a pair failed early the other might continue in service or both would be removed at the same time. Defective dies were condemned and not used again. Usable dies that were stored - usually reverse dies that had no date - were coated with thick grease or lard and stored in the coiner's vault. Rust was a very rare problem, and most of what is called "rust" was really spalling of the die surface during use.

 

Die surface imperfections arising from use - spalling, minor cracking, clashing, etc. - were repaired by abrading the hard die surface with flour emery or similar using an emery wheel. If this were done too many times, or with too much "vigor," the die field could be reduced to the point where parts of the recessed design were affected. (See the 1879-S dollars with missing wing detail, etc.) This was called surface repair or resurfacing – sometimes “lapping.”

 

Do not confuse this with basining, which was an abrasive change in the radius of the die, and could produce coins resembling ones that had been excessively resurfaced.

 

[Conder101]

? so do you think they may have found a defective die and put it in storage, then needed a die Quick and tried to sort this one out ?

No I think the die was probably damaged, possibly from a die clash and was lapped. This created the blank area by the eye and the seperation between the jaw and the neck. The die was put back in service and was subsequently scraped.

[dooly]

Great clarification as usual RWB (thumbs u

 

so what are the conclusions on my coin, Mint error.. unusual (not seen any reference bar this simpler one out of CP guide)

 

 

Probably a very short run before die was destroyed or turmanal die state.

 

Q: would if sent to NGC they say damaged or mint error or something else?

[Conder101]

It depends on what you consider a mint error. Most error collectors do not consider die errors to be "errors". In general they consider errors to be unique, "one of" items and this is characteristic of planchet and striking errors. A die error is either something that is found on all coins produced from a given die (such as a doubled die), in which case it is a variety and not an error. Or they are the result of damage the die suffers at some point in their life (cracks, cuds, clashing, excessive polishing, etc) in which case they are better described as a die stage. I would consider your coin to be a late die stage of that die.

[dooly]

(thumbs u thanks for the clarification