The Randall hoard of early large cents

[EZ_E]

 

I just purchased an 1820 large cent at the Tacoma Dome Coin Show last Saturday for my type collection. It is a gorgeous example free from spots and blemishes. I purchased it raw as ms 63. Personally, I think that it would grade 64 or maybe even 65. The fields are flawless with only two minor keg marks on the mandible. The luster is great and lots of red is visable. The above example is an upper speciment from the Randall hoard.

 

Although little documentation exists about the discovery and quantity of the Randall hoard, here are some facts and ideas of the hoard:

 

Roughly 2,100 were sold with Randall's estate upon his death in 1878, but possible hundreds more were dispersed before the estate sale. The hoard contained mostly 1818 cents (about 1,400), followed by 1820 N-13, which is the most famous/popular of the Randall Hoard coins.

 

Shortly after the Civil War, a large keg was found beneath an old railway platform in Georgia. Upon opening, it was discovered to contain several thousand large cents dated from 1816 through 1820. All the coins were probably uncirculated, but many showed carbon flecks from moisture in the atmosphere. The keg was sold to a dry-goods merchant in Norwich, New York who attempted to pass the old coins out to customers as a publicity stunt, but many people refused what was by that time an unfamiliar coin. The remainder of the keg was sold to John Randall, a Norwich coin collector, for 90 cents on the dollar. Randall sold the coins off slowly over the years, in spite of the rumors that they were restrikes. In 1878, as part of Randall's estate, the remaining 2,116 Coronet cents from the hoard were sold at public auction. The 1819s brought $1.28 each, but most of the other dates realized only 5-7 cents apiece. Almost all mint state cents from 1816-1820, many of which still possess original mint red color, are from Randall's hoard. Dates from the 1820s, however, are quite rare in mint state.

 

Some believe that a majority of the coins were corroded beyond recognition. only a small % of the original hoard was actually worthy of dispersal.

 

It is not known for sure how large the hoard actually was although it is believed that the hoard was obtained either directly from the mint or from a bank. Kegs were originally used by the US mint to store such coinage. A typical keg size was capable of containing $50 in face value of large cents.

 

Of the hundreds of Randall coins that have surfaced, the 1820 N-13's always seem to have the greatest state of surface preservation (lack of wear). Furthermore, the 1816-18 cents seem more likely to show signs of wear. In fact, many of the certified 1816-18 Randall coins that are graded as MS-61 through 63 usually are really AU-55 through MS-60 (by conventional grading standards). It seems that if an early copper has any red color remaining whatsoever, a grading service is inclined to assign an MS grade. The point is that the later the date, the better the condition.

 

One more side note: I wonder how many 1820 cents are called "Randall Hoard" cents, when in reality they were not part of the Randall Hoard?

 

Any further feedback?

 

Victor

[Oldtrader3]

I saw the coin when you bought it. It is a really nicely toned (brown) example large cent. Good find, Victor!

[Wihlborg]

Victor,

 

Your new coin sounds great! There is something about large cents and half cents that I find very appealing, but I have never been able to figure out just what it is. I currently own only one example of each, but someday I may add a few more to my collection.

 

Post a photo of that new 'gem' ASAP!

 

John

[Hoot]

Congrats Victor! And thanks for the info on the Randall hoard!

 

I have to wonder about the accuracy of statements like this: "many of the certified 1816-18 Randall coins that are graded as MS-61 through 63 usually are really AU-55 through MS-60 (by conventional grading standards). It seems that if an early copper has any red color remaining whatsoever, a grading service is inclined to assign an MS grade."

 

Hoot

[michael]

usually the 1820 is the best struck and looking of the randall coins and sometimes you can get them with great lustre and no spots sounds like you got a good one victor

 

thanks for the information too on this hoard

 

 

very interesting

 

 

michael

[TomB]

That's a nice pickup, Victor. I have one of these coins and it's an 1820 NGC MS66BN, the coin is quite sharp and spot-free. Thanks for the information that you posted. One observation that agrees with something Hoot brought up (note to self: you are in trouble when you agree with Hoot! ) is about the statement regarding AU and MS pieces. In general, many MS61/62 coins from this time period show some loss of detail through either circulation or cabinet friction, however, I don't know that I could expect that a very high percentage of such slabbed coins fall into that category. Keep in mind that I am a novice with copper, so, is this niche different? Something cool about these coin is that for relatively little money you can get a really unusual piece in very high grade.

[EVillageProwler]

Regarding the issue of grade-flation, I currently own an expensive item graded MS61. It used to be graded AU50 by a major service, and cataloged as AU by a major auction house.

 

(I bought it in an MS61 holder.)

 

I look at the coin, and look at the coin, and can't see any actual highpoint wear. I *think* the original grade was due to some field impairment -- even though the coin is still very flashy and lustrous.

 

EVP

[EZ_E]

Congrats Victor! And thanks for the info on the Randall hoard!

 

I have to wonder about the accuracy of statements like this: "many of the certified 1816-18 Randall coins that are graded as MS-61 through 63 usually are really AU-55 through MS-60 (by conventional grading standards). It seems that if an early copper has any red color remaining whatsoever, a grading service is inclined to assign an MS grade."

 

Hoot

 

Thanks for all of the feedback, boardsters.

 

I hesitated to put this quote in the thread because, in my experience, early coppers are more strictly graded than not.

[James_OldeTowne]

EZ_E, I was surprised to see one of my coin images in your initial post - I photographed that about three years ago! Thanks for a flashback to a terrific coin.

 

EVERY serious coin collector should have a Randall coin!

 

James

[Dry]

Great post, thanks for sharing!

 

[michael]

james the images on your site your site itself and write ups on coins are really good it is fun to visit your site and see what is new

 

i hope you did not mind we using this on here

 

michael

[EZ_E]

EZ_E, I was surprised to see one of my coin images in your initial post - I photographed that about three years ago! Thanks for a flashback to a terrific coin.

 

EVERY serious coin collector should have a Randall coin!

 

James

 

Cool! 'Tis a small universe, eh?

[Elcontador]

James,I agree with you. The 1820 N-13 Large Cent to old copper is a lot like the 17P Type I SLQ is to that series.

 

The N-13 is the most affordable Coronet Head Large Cent. It usually is struck well, and with many of them, the only issue is spotting. It is also readily available in virtually all grades, though you'll have some trouble finding one with a 'RD' color designation.

[EZ_E]

James,I agree with you. The 1820 N-13 Large Cent to old copper is a lot like the 17P Type I SLQ is to that series.

 

The N-13 is the most affordable Coronet Head Large Cent. It usually is struck well, and with many of them, the only issue is spotting. It is also readily available in virtually all grades, though you'll have some trouble finding one with a 'RD' color designation.

 

Excellent summary, Elcantador!

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's a nice one:

 

JUMBO-PIC

 

Yes, it's technically for sale, but I'm linking you the image, not any sales hype.

 

James

[michael]

sweet coin james is it a full red?

 

 

michael

 

oh and please post a web address for your web site i forget it!

[James_OldeTowne]

Michael, it has no red at all. Actually, it is 100% golden-bronze colored!

 

James

[EZ_E]

tOtHEtOP

 

[James_OldeTowne]

 

Wow, I wish I still owned this coin .

 

I haven't bought a Randall coin in well over a year.

[EZ_E]

 

Wow, I wish I still owned this coin .

 

I haven't bought a Randall coin in well over a year.

 

This was your coin? That's right, I didn't have a digital camera way back then when I posted this thread. I guess that I used yours as a typical example . It sure is a beaut!

[James_OldeTowne]

Yep, she was my 1820 coin for a long time.

[leeg]

Love these Type Coins!!! Wish I could fine this one:

 

 

 

 

I'ts lost in my apartment or got sent to a collector with another coin by mistake. No one has said they received it in error though.

[WoodenJefferson]

Love these Type Coins!!! Wish I could fine this one:

I'ts lost in my apartment or got sent to a collector with another coin by mistake. No one has said they received it in error though.

 

Can I come over with my metal detector?

 

My finders fee is not all that much.

 

(especially if you don't see me find it as I stash it in my pocket while excusing myself. Of course you will still think it may have been sent to someone else by mistake)

 

Really though, I hope one day that you stumble across this great looking cent once again, it needs a good home.

[rbrown4]

Beautiful 1818

 

Gosh I hope you find it.

 

rey

 

[MikeInFL]

One more side note: I wonder how many 1820 cents are called "Randall Hoard" cents, when in reality they were not part of the Randall Hoard?

 

I suspect not many at all, as high grade mint state coins from the late 1810's and early 20's are rare birds indeed.

 

To wit, if you look at the non-Randall Hoard dates before and after, along with the non-Randall Hoard 1820 varieties, to find a coin in this state of preservation is very, very rare. Take 1821 for instance, NGC has graded only ONE coin above MS 63 (that's not to say only one exists, because given the preference for raw coins among copper enthusiasts many examples have never seen the inside of a slab, but rather to suggest only a handful would exist if not for this hoard).

 

Also, Randall Hoard coins tend to have a very specific look and almost always have spots, and non-Randall Hoard coins from this period very, very rarely look the same -- after you've seen a few it becomes pretty easy to tell the difference (thought the fact that many Randall Hoard coins have been cleaned/recolored over they years makes it a bit more difficult in some cases).....Mike

 

p.s. sorry it took almost 4 years for me to respond.

[MikeInFL]

I'ts lost in my apartment or got sent to a collector with another coin by mistake. No one has said they received it in error though.

 

That sucks, Lee!

 

I can tell you with certainty you didn't send it to me -- I would have at least paid you for your mistake as it would have been hard for me to return it.

[NoTwilight]

Lee,

Best of luck.

 

Mike,

Those who have a non-Randall Horde MS+ cent from 1818 -20 have a coin that would be a 5 figure coin any other nearby year. Anyway, interesting way to think of it. When I see a MS6x cent from those years with no die cracks and no spots and original looking surfaces that's what goes thru my head. --Jerry