Ok bust half experts, how did I do?

[jtryka]

After a long while, I finally had some time to look at a couple bust halves I had laying around, and actually attempt an attribution from the Overton book. So here are the two, the first is an 1818/17 that I identified as an O-101, R.1. The second is an 1823 that I identified as an O-104, R.3. I freely admit that I had a lot more trouble on the 1823 than the overdate, mainly because of the number of varieties for that date. So how did I do? I know it's hard to attribute based on photos, but feel free to try, and also feel free to offer grade opinions as well!

 

Here are the photos:

 

1818/17 Obverse

1818/17 Reverse

1823 Obverse

1823 Reverse

[lazeroo]

looks like you did good.

 

I can't see the center dots but I'm sure you got it right.

 

every now and then I break out the bust halves and go thru the overton book to keep up on it.

[Nysoto]

Jeff,

 

I agree with your attributions. The I is to the right of T on the 1823, eliminating all but three varieties. The reverse I and T relationship is the quickest way to narrow down the candidates for faster attribution. I did not notice a double profile on your 1823, common on this variety, sometimes they require a loupe to see. Russ Logan determined that double profiles were caused by the hammer die shifting in a worn die cup during striking. Machine doubling was not found in some years and varieties (1822). As mintage increased in 1823, 1824, and 1825, machine doubling increased, then was reduced in 1826.

 

When I saw you at the PNNA in May, I mentioned a discovery of a new obverse die for bust halves. The bust half community confirmed the new die marriage, 1807 O.115 Draped Bust, at the Long Beach show. I heard NGC has just graded and attributed the coin. The discovery coin has subtle, but distinct differences from 1807 O.104, including a dentil count that is one less than O.104! This is quite an interesting discovery and attribution story that will be in the next John Reich Journal. There are still some surprises out there, this was a $300 coin that is now worth well into five figures.

 

Bill

[jtryka]

Wow Bill! That is fantastic news! Finding a new variety like that even after the exhaustive research of the likes of Overton is truly an amazing thing. Are there any photos?

[EVillageProwler]

Jeff,

 

There are photos galore across the street. If you have problems finding the thread (originator is Baley, I think), let me know.

 

Bill,

 

Looking forward to that article!!!

 

On a related topic, any chance that the Bust half crowd will re-number the die (re)marriage sequencing a la Bowers-Borckardt so that the issuance sequence is better represented *and* so that the new 1807 pre-Turb isn't numbered *after* the last of the Turb 1807 marriage?

 

(Sorry for the very lengthy run-on sentence!)

 

EVP

[Nysoto]

Jeff,

 

It is amazing that a new variety was discovered, considering they have been collected by die marriage since 1881 (Haseltine), through the 1929 Beistle book, and the Overton series. This is the first new discovery since 1806 O.128 was identified in 1995. The year 1807 for draped bust halves is overlooked, no R.6-R.8 rarities or Redbook varieties, with lots of unattributed coins out there. Also, O.115 is very similar to O.104 and O.101. Baley's thread is, after editing: "CONFIRMED!! Analysis of Draped Bust Half Identifies New Obverse Die! The thread originally was "Guess the grade on this 1807 Draped Bust Half". Congratulations to Baley!

 

EVP,

 

The BHNC manager made the call on O.115, this follows the traditional Overton numbering sequence for new discoveries. There is no talk of re-numbering the series or the year, but O.115 could be a bit confusing as it does not match the emission sequence from draped bust to capped bust. Most collectors who own an 1807 O.111b Bearded Goddess probably would not want the number changed for this variety.

 

The article will include much of the attribution challenge within the BHNC, from a coin that could not be attributed to any known variety, eliminating all differences affected by die state/lapping, and finally providing evidence to prove the coin was a new variety.