Have a Cigar! Show your Gold Coins!
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274 posts in this topic

Just to show how lighting is everything, here is a pic from an iPhone with flash:

IMG_0400.jpg.517e9b5d0668f0942dc23a031155f4fa.jpg

It's a $10 Carson City in AU 53.  Nothing to write home about.

Now, look at the same coin, but without the flash… 

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"the waiting is the hardest part"

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IMG_0399.thumb.jpg.3a8b0ade7f55d4faa03f83da9ec27721.jpg

Same camera… (without flash) hard to believe it is the same coin.

:)

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5 hours ago, Mr_Spud said:

Here’s some of my gold coins

 

A3D3AE1C-3AA9-48D9-9BF5-290DA3DECBD8.jpeg

Novel presentation. (And has anyone noticed how well the white background complements the gold? Kudos to NGC and their lovely holders!

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On 8/13/2020 at 10:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Bought at FUN earlier this year:  Could not afford an MS67 but thought about stretching for an MS66+ or MS66 CAC...bought another Saint with the savings instead. :bigsmile: 

1923-D Saint Gaudens MS-66 (crop).jpg

1923-D Saint Gaudens MS-66 rev (crop).jpg

Would you mind telling me whether you can recall seeing an appreciable difference in quality between the MS66 CAC and the MS66 you chose above?

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3 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Would you mind telling me whether you can recall seeing an appreciable difference in quality between the MS66 CAC and the MS66 you chose above?

It was a bit "cleaner", yes.  Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ?  That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question xD ). 

Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D.  I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level.  All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

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On 8/10/2012 at 4:38 PM, Hard Times said:

I suspect it was sent into NCS t

I sent 3 CC $20.00 Gold to them and every time I was more than happy with the final results.

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On 2/28/2021 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It was a bit "cleaner", yes.  Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ?  That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question xD ). 

Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D.  I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level.  All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

Thanks. When a customer told the NGC guy Rick from Pawn Stars relies on for an expert opinion that he believed the piece he brought in for examination was worth much more than the assessment offered, the NGC guy (specializing in Ancients) cited reliance by the numismatic community on prices realized at auctions -- he mentioned Heritage -- as a determinant of FMV and not starry eyed people [like me] for whom price, at times, is no object. You cannot argue with common sense.

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I wish I had something nice to say about this 2016 Mercury Dime Centennial Gold Coin which arrived in a nice presentation box and dust cover, but I do not. My objection? Two things: its finish, described as a "Business Strike," a fancy term meaning a regular strike for circulation and a disappointing lack of detail. Forget the cigar. I took one look at this and thought, I want my money back! Now I live, breathe and dream Roosters... exclusively!20210305_150855.thumb.jpg.2a6a18a6aee1ae802010aaf05a8eeb3b.jpg20210305_151324.thumb.jpg.bb847bd2a43a0c64fe42efef7179871d.jpg

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1 hour ago, AcesKings said:

12316683_1987CON-SET-5.thumb.jpg.03dcf519e5ff7b26c07823f97f224725.jpg1926354740_1987CON-SET-5-R.thumb.jpg.ce10a56e4aade7b2e598b0d5df7e88df.jpg

This little number has a lot going for it.  How many coins bear italic writing?  Rumor has it I was born on the 17th day of September, today called Constitution Day.  Quick Quiz: Q: name one site where your constitutional rights as enshrined in the amendments enumerated in the Bill of Rights do not apply?  A:  this Forum. Don't believe me with three Warnings to his credit? Check the Guidelines, and take it from me:  they mean business!  Anyone who ends their spiel with, "This stops now," means business!

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4 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Thanks. When a customer told the NGC guy Rick from Pawn Stars relies on for an expert opinion that he believed the piece he brought in for examination was worth much more than the assessment offered, the NGC guy (specializing in Ancients) cited reliance by the numismatic community on prices realized at auctions -- he mentioned Heritage -- as a determinant of FMV and not starry eyed people [like me] for whom price, at times, is no object. You cannot argue with common sense.

I haven't watched PAWN STARS much lately but didn't realize they brought in actual NGC folks.  Interesting.....(thumbsu

Ultimately, you can't argue with actual sales prices, from Heritage, GC, or other places.  I would throw out Ebay and Etsy and other sites that aren't frequented by numismatists and serious coin collectors.

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6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I haven't watched PAWN STARS much lately but didn't realize they brought in actual NGC folks.  Interesting.....(thumbsu

Ultimately, you can't argue with actual sales prices, from Heritage, GC, or other places.  I would throw out Ebay and Etsy and other sites that aren't frequented by numismatists and serious coin collectors.

Not to belabor the point but if I purchase a certified coin from a European consortium of dealers and a proof-of-purchase and/or physical ownership is demanded before it can be placed in a collector's Set Registry should not that price paid -- even if prices run higher elsewhere -- count for something in the Realm of the Goddess of Fair Market Value? The alternative is monopolistic.  Am I to believe that numismatics begins and ends at one auction house's door? Where do you, RWB and VKurtB stand on this.

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2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Not to belabor the point but if I purchase a certified coin from a European consortium of dealers and a proof-of-purchase and/or physical ownership is demanded before it can be placed in a collector's Set Registry should not that price paid -- even if prices run higher elsewhere -- count for something in the Realm of the Goddess of Fair Market Value? The alternative is monopolistic.  Am I to believe that numismatics begins and ends at one auction house's door? Where do you, RWB and VKurtB stand on this.

I'm not an expert on pricing, but what are you asking ?  If additional fees for a COA are worth something ?  I don't think actual sales prices usually includes this.  Sometimes its necessary, sometimes its not.

Where is the monopolistic behavior entering into it ?

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not an expert on pricing, but what are you asking ?  If additional fees for a COA are worth something ?  I don't think actual sales prices usually includes this.  Sometimes its necessary, sometimes its not.

Where is the monopolistic behavior entering into it ?

I, perhaps, bit off more than I could chew.  What the young gentleman, who specializes in Ancients at NGC was saying was whatever the auction prices realized at sale at an auction house like Heritage's dictated because they appeal to a vast audience rather than an unusually high price that just happened to have been realized in one sale.  Come to think of it, that was what the NGC expert was maintaining, and it

 

On 2/28/2021 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It was a bit "cleaner", yes.  Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ?  That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question xD ). 

Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D.  I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level.  All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

made sense.

Yes, you, and I, may have been prepared to go higher but our stratospheric bid is not FMV, only a benchmark of what had been achieved for a specific coin on a specific occasion under what very well may have been a fluke situation.  Cooler heads usually prevail and it is their incremental bidding that counts in auctions -- rather than the price for a coin that just happened to wind up way out there because someone just "had to have it."

In consideration of how FMV is really determined, I must withdraw my objection.  There will always be an upper limit set but it by itself does not establish market value.  I suppose the same could be said for the reverse case where no one's bidding approaches the reserve price af which point lack of sufficient demand is reflected in the negative prices a perfectly good coin fails to achieve and the coin may very well be withdrawn from sale.

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51 minutes ago, Cat Bath said:

My 1st sovereign purchase.

I was nervous about the white spots in the picture but they turned out to be lint. (thumbsu

1703609102_5poundsovereign.thumb.png.7fee5ca9e9d524c7664ab2aa417a12e8.png1108697665_5pound1984.thumb.png.3cd48f565891afb3fcc63525680ffa21.png

Lovely... proof-like, too!

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On 3/5/2021 at 6:32 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

"This stops now," means business!

This came about because no matter how kindly the Mod would ask they would receive verbal abuse as a reply.  Most of those DoDos are gone but some have replaced them.  If you were here for the 'War of the Words' (2003-2006) you'd have a better view of the rules.  Also, your 'Constitutional Rights' do NOT apply to private industry.  If that were true Twitless, FakeBook, et al would be out of business by now.  Acceptance is the first step to peace of mind.  

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On 3/6/2021 at 2:27 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I, perhaps, bit off more than I could chew.  What the young gentleman, who specializes in Ancients at NGC was saying was whatever the auction prices realized at sale at an auction house like Heritage's dictated because they appeal to a vast audience rather than an unusually high price that just happened to have been realized in one sale. 

You ALWAYS want multiple sales prices to avoid using an outlier as the FMV.  Of course, if sales are infrequent and the last sale is 25% higher, something may have changed in the market (maybe the underlying gold or silver price) or maybe on that day there was just an excess of buyers (less likely to happen on HA, a bit more so on GC, more on Ebay).  Then you buy 25% higher and another sale happens in 3 weeks 25% lower and you realize you shouldn't have chased. doh!

On 3/6/2021 at 2:27 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Yes, you, and I, may have been prepared to go higher but our stratospheric bid is not FMV, only a benchmark of what had been achieved for a specific coin on a specific occasion under what very well may have been a fluke situation.  Cooler heads usually prevail and it is their incremental bidding that counts in auctions -- rather than the price for a coin that just happened to wind up way out there because someone just "had to have it."  In consideration of how FMV is really determined, I must withdraw my objection.  There will always be an upper limit set but it by itself does not establish market value.  I suppose the same could be said for the reverse case where no one's bidding approaches the reserve price af which point lack of sufficient demand is reflected in the negative prices a perfectly good coin fails to achieve and the coin may very well be withdrawn from sale.

I probably watched 1923-D auctions/sales closely (like EVERY week) for 3-4 months as soon as I knew I was going to FUN 2020 and would likely be a buyer.  Before that I had watched a bit less frequently going back years.

People know the market for more liquid, more popular coins like Saints and more so for years or mintmarks that are ALWAYS available like the 1923-D.  Get a rarer coin that only has a few hundred and you can easily see the price bounce around alot.  It's the market pricing as best it can and markets work best when you have lots of sellers and lots of buyers. 

But liquidity in the coin game will never approach that of the financial markets. :)

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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3 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

This came about because no matter how kindly the Mod would ask they would receive verbal abuse as a reply.  Most of those DoDos are gone but some have replaced them.  If you were here for the 'War of the Words' (2003-2006) you'd have a better view of the rules.  Also, your 'Constitutional Rights' do NOT apply to private industry.  If that were true Twitless, FakeBook, et al would be out of business by now.  Acceptance is the first step to peace of mind.  

No emoji???

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