PCGS give it a + ,CAC decline to sticker

[x2rider]

Who's right who's wrong .

Sorry can't post a pic but who's word would you take , apart from your own ?

[coinman_23885]

Are we talking circulated or uncirculated? What is the coin in question? The TPGs don't penalize dipped out coins as often as they should in my book, and it wouldn't surprise me if CAC refused to sticker an overly dipped coin (although I have admittedly seen dipped coins with CAC stickers).

[x2rider]

We're talking ms66+ here And definatly not dipped

[coinman_23885]

I think there are simply too many variables to provide a thoughtful analysis without additional details or an image. I will say, however, that PCGS frequently bumps up a coin for positive eye appeal. Maybe the coin in question was one of these (i.e. a just made 66 with unusually excellent or luster bumped up to the 66+). I would tend to trust CAC more. While I like PCGS coins, I personally find them inconsistent at times (even more so than some other TPGs). CAC appears to be more consistent, but this is based on my very unscientific survey of coins that I have purchased or seen for sale

[michael]

all opinions

 

if pcgs think's it is an ms66+

 

and then cac declines to sticker it

 

it is one of there reasons why cac declines to sticker it

 

1--- it is a low end 66 ie ms66.0-ms66.4 OR lower grade

 

2--- they dont like the eye appeal of the coin OR just dont like it ie not market acceptable

 

3---- or they might think there is damage to the coin and/or something done to the coin that is market un-acceptable to cac

 

4----- un acceptable toning to cac

 

5--- some sort of market un-acceptable doctoring done to the coin to make it look better ie hiding something

 

6--- over dipped or too harshly cleaned to me market acceptable to cac

 

7--- some sort of scratch dig too many marks wheel marks etc. not acceptable to cac

 

8--- or a combo of the above

 

 

 

 

 

[FishyOne]

I've got two "+" coins right now that didn't sticker. A $10 Indian in PCGS MS62+ and a Morgan in NGC 65+.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I wonder if CAC tightens up on + coins and only stickers them if they are "solid for the +"! (i.e. only X.8 and X.9 coins sticker)? It makes some sense but I haven't asked John or investigated it at all.

 

Eye appeal seems to play a big role at CAC (as expected) and just because a coin is 65.8 doesn't mean it has high end eye appeal for a 65. A think + coins are held to a + standard.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[jom]

OK, I've heard CAC does not base their opinion of the "+" sign, right?

 

If that isn't true then isn't CAC saying the coin doesn't grade on the high end of 66+ rather than 66?

 

I admit I'm confused by this....

 

jom

[physics-fan3.14]

I'd say third and fourth party graders be damned! Grade the coin for yourself, and pay what you think its worth. If you can't do that, don't buy it.

[jom]

I'd say third and fourth party graders be damned! Grade the coin for yourself, and pay what you think its worth. If you can't do that, don't buy it.

 

But...but...but...that takes energy. I'd rather just look at the label. I'm mesmerized by the funny colors I see when I look at the CAC label. It's like a kaleidoscope!

 

jom

[lehigh96]

Who's right who's wrong .

Sorry can't post a pic but who's word would you take , apart from your own ?

 

Neither party is infallible. Without photos, we have no way of deciding who is right and who is wrong.

[PerryHall]

Who's right who's wrong .

Sorry can't post a pic but who's word would you take , apart from your own ?

 

Neither party is infallible. Without photos, we have no way of deciding who is right and who is wrong.

 

Agree. Without detailed pics or an in-hand examination it's impossible to say who's right and who's wrong. Even then it's only an opinion and others may disagree. Such is the nature of grading and evaluating coins.

[MarkFeld]

Who's right who's wrong .

Sorry can't post a pic but who's word would you take , apart from your own ?

 

Neither party is infallible. Without photos, we have no way of deciding who is right and who is wrong.

 

And even with photos, we might not have any way of deciding, either.

[FishyOne]

I'd say third and fourth party graders be damned! Grade the coin for yourself, and pay what you think its worth. If you can't do that, don't buy it.

 

How about we do what we want to do and you do what you want to do?

 

I think TPG (& 4th) adds a fun and interesting dimension to the hobby and makes buying/selling entertaining and removes some of the risks.

 

I'm a rookie relatively speaking and would not have bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins over the last few years w/o TPG. 4th party grading allows me to make a little money while learning also.

 

For the record, here's a PCGS MS62+ that didn't sticker. Comments?

 

[FishyOne]

And another + that did not sticker. I submit to CAC for marketability and fun. I buy and sell for fun too!

 

[coinman_23885]

I'd say third and fourth party graders be damned! Grade the coin for yourself, and pay what you think its worth. If you can't do that, don't buy it.

 

How about we do what we want to do and you do what you want to do?

 

I think TPG (& 4th) adds a fun and interesting dimension to the hobby and makes buying/selling entertaining and removes some of the risks.

 

I'm a rookie relatively speaking and would not have bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins over the last few years w/o TPG. 4th party grading allows me to make a little money while learning also.

 

For the record, here's a PCGS MS62+ that didn't sticker. Comments?

 

 

I think CAC was correct on this one. I think there is too much chatter. I think it is low end for the grade.

[coinman_23885]

And another + that did not sticker. I submit to CAC for marketability and fun. I buy and sell for fun too!

 

 

I don't have a problem with a MS65 grade on this. What is that haze that appears on the coin (improper rinse after a dip?)? Maybe this is what CAC saw. I'm still surprised that this didn't sticker.

[coinman1794]

The haze could also be original roll toning. Morgans cannot be graded, precisely, from photographs, I have found.

[FishyOne]

The Indian got the + for the luster (I think). It's an average 62 in my mind but no green bean.

 

Those Morgan pics are from Great Collections. Here's a couple of mine. No haze to speak of but an average strike for the date. Semi-proof like in-hand. Slight rim ding at 6:00 reverse. Looks like a solid 65 if not a true +.

 

[Chris1976]

Think you answered your own question as to why that morgan didnt get a bean, the rim ding

[messydesk]

Perhaps I should feel somewhat redeemed for only scoring 3/20 on the PCGS Grading Challenge at FUN.

[coinman_23885]

The Morgan should have stickered.

[FishyOne]

The Morgan should have stickered.

 

The only thing I could figure on the Morgan was the rim ding on the reverse.

 

I've heard CAC doesn't like rim problems at all. It's a small ding but it's there.....

[jom]

I'd say third and fourth party graders be damned! Grade the coin for yourself, and pay what you think its worth. If you can't do that, don't buy it.

 

How about we do what we want to do and you do what you want to do?

 

I think TPG (& 4th) adds a fun and interesting dimension to the hobby and makes buying/selling entertaining and removes some of the risks.

 

I'm a rookie relatively speaking and would not have bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins over the last few years w/o TPG. 4th party grading allows me to make a little money while learning also.

 

For the record, here's a PCGS MS62+ that didn't sticker. Comments?

 

 

I think CAC was correct on this one. I think there is too much chatter. I think it is low end for the grade.

 

I can't agree. Based the photo I can't see how that isn't just a regular old MS62...hell...I've seen that in MS63 holders. So why not a sticker?

 

However, what the photo may not be telling is that the coin might be AU or at least CAC may have felt that way.

 

My question why would anyone bother having this sent to CAC in the first place. Do we really need to be precise with an MS62 grade?

 

jom

[FishyOne]

My question why would anyone bother having this sent to CAC in the first place. Do we really need to be precise with an MS62 grade?

 

I sent it in because I wanted to. Simple as that.

 

I do sell coins also. CAC stickered coins get higher bids and costs me virtually nothing. No sticker = No charge. Sticker = $10. Sticker = far more than $10 in most sales.

[mkman123]

I like the Morgan but not the Indian. Use your own judgement and what you like

[cpm9ball]

Perhaps I should feel somewhat redeemed for only scoring 3/20 on the PCGS Grading Challenge at FUN.

 

Who won it, John?

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

The Morgan should have stickered.

 

Ther hair above the ear looks to be weakly struck.

 

Chris

[wheat'swheats]

Having had my feelings hurt more than once by CAC, all I can say is that's what you pay for. Once the sticker is there , there is no doubt of the quality of your coin. I have also found that CAC is especially tough on Lincoln cents and Morgan dollars, but that's just my opinion. Having said that, I would not have it any other way. If CAC stickers were not tough to get you might as well just send it back to PCGS, and ask for a double +

 

[PerryHall]

Let's face it---some + coins are on the borderline and could go either way as far as CAC sticker eligibility. In these cases would it make sense to let a favored CAC dealer such as Laura to submit it to get the benefit of the doubt?

[wheat'swheats]

I don't beleive there is any such thing as a favored dealer. One of my friends is an investor in CAC and I have spoken with John on several occasions in regard to my failed attempts. I have found that if the strike, color, or any of a thousand other reasons don't come together, John will just not sticker. I then go back cry in my beer and keep trying to build the CAC set of Lincolns. I do however know the set I have will be top rated for grade.