How common are counterfeits and alterations in what you collect?

[jtryka]

I thought this might be an interesting and educational topic for everyone, both newer collectors, and experienced collectors with less familiarity with a particular series. As I embark on Bust halves, I am interested to learn of this series, since I want to avoid mistakes.

 

For the series I do collect, I can add a few things. I know that alterations can be very common on key date Morgans (I collect mainly circ coins), and have personally bought an altered 1894-O attempting to be an 1894 plain, but fortunately the seller had a good return policy and all I lost was postage. For gold, there are lots and lots of potential counterfeits (though not so many alterations). We've discussed on another thread the Omega HR Saints from 1907, but there are lots of counterfeits in other series, mostly modern numismatic counterfeits which means that the weight, gold content and dimensions will match mint specifications closely, making them harder to detect, though some common dates are made with lower gold content to generate illicit profits from the metal. On Liberty double eagles, the most common counterfeits I've found are the 1882-S, which is fairly easy to detect by the experienced eye. There are also many counterfeit $5 and $2 1/2 Indians that originate in Mexico and Asia, and some of these are quite difficult to detect given their numismatic approach. There have also been a number of high quality counterfeit Saints that have come out of the middle east, and as I've heard it, even some professionals have been duped by the high quality of these fakes. There are many more, including the most popular fakes, $1 and $3 gold, but what have you found in your area of specialty that many of us might not be aware of?

[EVillageProwler]

Jeff,

 

Counterfeits are fairly common for Bust halves. I collect Trade Dollars; counterfeits abound from Asia!

 

A few years ago, I saw an ``1807'' dated ED. Interesting alteration...

 

EVP

 

[PQSeated]

I've honestly haven't run in to any counterfeit or altered seated dimes or quarters. It's a looked over series with not too much interest. I feel safing buying raw coins. The only thing I worry about with buying raw is whether or not it's been cleaned. These are just some of my experiences. Other people may have run in to counterfeit or altered seated dimes and quarters, I just haven't, yet. (Knock on wood)

[cladking]

Unsurprisingly they are still virtually nonexistent. There have been cases reported of 1982 dimes with the mint mark removed and high grade unc '68 dimes substituted into proof sets to sell as No-S. There are a few counterfeits around but they are intended to pass in circulation and are far too crude to fool collectors.

[jtryka]

Why would anyone counterfeit a modern coin for circulation? It costs the Mint anywhere from a nickel to 13 cents to make a coin, I can only imagine it would cost an individual more! Where's the payoff?

[keithdagen]

The error coins mentioned bring substantial premiums, even in plain BU grades, so counterfeiting those could bring plenty of profits.

[jtryka]

You are absolutely right Keith, and you'll get no argument there, my point was addressing this part:

 

There are a few counterfeits around but they are intended to pass in circulation and are far too crude to fool collectors.

[coppercoins-migration]

Hmm...Well, my specialty is the Lincoln cent. While counterfeits are somewhat less known, alterations abound. Some of the more popular/common ones are:

 

1. 1909S VDB : Usually altered from a 1909P VDB cent by adding a mint mark, these are usually easily detected with some magnification and a bit of knowledge. Sometimes, but not all of the time, the wrong "S" type will be used. Almost always, these are formed by gluing an "S" onto the coin, and acetone will usually take care of that since it dissolves glue...a dab of acetone, and the fake mint mark will usually lift right off the coin. Much less common is the added VDB on the reverse of a non-VDB 1909S cent, but since these are expensive to begin with and alteration of three letters is more difficult than one, it's not seen nearly as frequently.

 

2. 1914D : Nine out of ten I've seen are altered 1944D cents. Someone with some tools and patience turns the first 4 in the date into a 1 by shaving off the left half of the digit. To anyone with any experience in Lincoln cents, these are easily spotted not only by the VDB on the bust (genuine coins do not have the initials) but also by the fact that the relief (read: entire design) of the obverse is substantially different between the two dates.

 

3. 1922 "no D" : A number of examples of 1922D cents with the mint mark removed are out there. They can sometimes be difficult to detect, even to the trained eye. My suggestion is if you want the "no D" cent, learn the die diagnostics and use them in determining the authenticity of a suspect coin - the first of which being that the reverse needs to be the strong one. That's the only one that generally commands much of a premium.

 

4. 1943 "copper" : Probably more of these exist than any other Lincoln cent alteration, mostly due to the fact that they are easy to make from a genuine 1943 cent. One big difference between copper and steel is that steel is magnetic. Check the coin with a magnet - if it sticks, it's copper plated. If it doesn't stick, your magnet is likely not working. I personally believe all the 1943 copper cents are accounted for.

 

5. 1955 doubled die : Known struck counterfeits exist of this die. Two diagnostics stick out. The first is that the rim is sharper on the obverse of the counterfeit than on the genuine specimens. It has a more proof-like rim due to the nature of counterfeiting. The equipment isn't exactly the same, so it makes something a bit different. The second diagnostic is an "X" shaped pair of die scratches that show under the left side of the "T" in CENT on the reverse. This "X" shape shows on all genuine 1955 doubled dies.

 

6. 1969P doubled die : Although somewhat rare at this point, there still exist a couple of examples of a dreamfully extreme wide spread doubled die for 1969. This is NOT the 1969S doubled die which is genuine, rare, and very valuable. These are counterfeits that were struck by dies made from casts of real 1969 cents, and are deceptive in quality, although the extreme nature of the spread in the doubling is more than an imaginative creator, it was enough to cause real suspition....rightly so. Hellen Keller herself could see the doubling on this coin, it has more than twice the spread of the 1955 doubled die. These are extremely illegal to own, and the fuss caused by them in 1969 held a shadow over the 1969S doubled die for a long time, because even these genuine doubled dies were being confiscated by the Secret Service. I think they know the difference now, but I wouldn't put anything past them.

 

That's the six most commonly "faked" or counterfeit Lincoln cents by date and mint mark, but many - VERY many - "basement job" errors exist, ranging from clashes caused by squeezing coins in a stack with a vise to clipped planchets created with homemade punches. Faked "unplated" zinc cents are also very common. There are chemical compounds out there that will remove the copper shell off of a zinc coin and leave the core intact. These are usally identifiable by the softness and lack of thickness in the devices. Just be careful and learn the tricks of the fabricated error trade and know the diagnostics for a genuine one before sticking your cash on the barrel.

[nwcs]

For the items I collect right now, there are not many counterfeits. However, I'm beginning to move from common coinage to more semi-keys and keys (especially if I can sell my barber quarter and maybe a few others) and I'm sure to see more there. It is in those cases where I'll be forced to learn a great deal to protect myself. I think the only counterfeit I've heard of for coins I've actually purchased is a 1926S peace dollar. Which is a bit surprising considering that it is not exactly all that rare!

[cladking]

Perhaps I could have phrased it better. There are virtually no altered or counterfeit moderns. While the altered are few, the counterfeit are even fewer in the number of series produced. There was a fair quality issue on the East coast about three years ago. Probably about 5 or 10,000 of these quarters still in existence. There was recently a counterfeiting ring from South America which was passing Sacs in The Dominican Republic which was put out of operation. It's likely that at least a few of these made it here. There are other reports of counterfeits being detected as far back as 1965. None of the other counterfeiters have been caught and their product (that I've seen) is of poor quality. There was also a "counterfeit" issued by a seed grower back around 1994. It is very good quality and has a good obverse, the reverse is an ad for the manufacturer. The government made them spend huge amounts of money to retrieve the coins which had been mailed out to farmers in the northern Midwest. While official numbers are not available, it is believed about 100 coins were never returned and the issue is extremely scarce. There was also a computer designed square quarter issued in the late 80's. These sold for a lot of mney and are not often seen.

[PQSeated]

Is there a market for counterfeit and altered coins? I think it would be neat to put a collection of these coins together.

[Tradedollarnut]

Wouldn't it be probable that a counterfeit mid grade modern would be worth more to a collector than a genuine coin? Just for the novelty. [Disclaimer: this has nothing to do with whether or not a high grade modern is a desirable thing, so don't EVEN go there!]

[cladking]

I like counterfeits. Especially the real McCoys.

[cladking]

This is a little early to me a true modern. but there was also a prolific nickel counterfeiter in New Jersey in the lat '40's. A man named Henning made over 100,000 fake nickels, most of them dated 1944 with no mint mark. About 50,000 actually got into circulation! The quality is fair and if not for the lack of MM he may have been in business a lot longer. Apparently it was the hobby which alerted the secret service to the sham. Most were passed a few rolls at a time to local banks.

 

These coins are highly sought after today and often bring $20 or more. It is not really legal to trade in such items but the authorities have always looked the other way so long as they remain contained and there is no fraud involved. It might not be wise to advertise such items or put them on e-bay.

[nwcs]

I have heard of Henning. Didn't he dump about 100,000 of those nickels into the river? I have to admit I wondered why he would create a fake circulating nickel. Unless he was trying to profit solely from the no mint mark thing. But from what I understand, error collecting wasn't especially common at the time.

 

Neil

[jtryka]

I remember reading a story once about a young collector that helped the feds bust a spy ring (I think in the 60s) because they gave him a nickel in payment for the newspaper (he was a paperboy too) and it seemed odd to him. As it turned out it was a hollowed out nickel that they used to pass microfilm! Anyone know this story?

[cladking]

There were a sizable quantity dumped in the river and never recovered. He was no numismatist and inadvertantly paired a war nickel date with a post war reverse to make his dies. It is probably closer to 50,000 in the river, but I'm not certain. It is believed that the "cost" of these exceeded $.04 each! Maybe they should have given him a job at the mint instead of the few years in prison that he got.

[Chippewa]

Early in the EBAY era, when I was still naive enough to buy raw coins on EBAY, I acquired three gold counterfeits. One I was able to return to the seller but I had to eat the other two. I donated them to ANA for use in their classes, making sure they knew they were counterfeit. One was a cast $5 Indian and one was a struck $1 gold.

[DWLange]

Francis Lerory Henning's operation was exposed when the Camden County (NJ) Coin Club reported the "P-less" nickels to the Secret Service, early in 1955. For Henning, this was more of a hobby than a business, a challenge to his skill as a machinist. He had tried his hand at several denominations, but he found that his greatest success was with nickels. This was probably because the real coins are of base metal, too. The other dates he counterfeited reportedly included 1939, 1946, 1947 and 1953, all without mintmarks and using the same reverse die. These are detectable by a small void in the letter R of PLURIBUS. I have a couple examples of the 1944 issue in my reference collection, but I've never been able to locate the other dates.

 

Henning previously had been convicted of counterfeiting, so this was not his first offense. While the harm created by counterfeit nickels was relatively slight, his previous record made it mandatory that he be prosecuted.

 

This story is told in some detail in a booklet by Dwight H. Stuckey titled The Counterfeit 1944 Jefferson Nickel. This was a self-published effort and, while the illustrations are poor, it makes for interesting reading. I've seen only the one copy in my library, so it must not have had a large press run.

[cladking]

Thanks for the info. As I remember he got several years in prison and most or all of it was converted to probation and time served. He died not too much later anyway.

[kenwin1]

Can you post a scan of the the nickle? I am sure every one would like to see it, And maybe a blowup of the defect? Thanks

[cladking]

A scan would be nice, but the whole coin looks counterfeit. The metal doesn't look quite right and the lines are all wavy. The diagnostic would be helpful in spotting the specific counterfeiter but is not necessary to tell the coin is wrong. Quality of these is only fair.

[Nysoto]

There was an altered 1801 draped bust half on ebay a couple of months ago, it was an 1807 O-105 with the 7 altered. Also, there was an altered 1815 key date bust half that has appeared on ebay at least twice. I seldom bid on ebay halves, but I always attribute them to the Overton variety before bidding. Some of the counterfeit bust halves are quite comical, they can bring surprisingly high prices.

 

I noticed your location is in Issaquah, WA. Bust coin dealer Mark Entman should be at the Boeing Coin Show in Kent January 18-19, he always has an excellent selection of quality bust halves.

[Oldtrader3]

There was a Arthur Bishop in Salt Lake City that nicked the Morman Church for a couple $ hundred thousand in fake Morman Gold, while he was a Bishop (Bishop Bishop has a ring to it) in the LDS Church. When he was found out, he bombed a bunch of mail boxes and killed a couple people who were going to blow the whistle on him. He was caught when one of his bombs accidently blew up in his car (almost killing him). He also counterfieted a bunch of (White Salamander) letters from Joseph Smith and sold those to the church. He went to jail on the murder rap.

 

The only counterfeit that I have bought was a raw MS63, 1884-S Morgan. When I sent it to PCGS they bagged it as an "altered mint mark". I had a return priviledge with the dealer and he refunded my money.

[jtryka]

Thanks Nysoto, I may have to check out that show.

[GDJMSP]

I think the person you are referring to is Mark Hofmann regarding the forgeries of Mormon documents and coins.

 

Arthur Bishop was from Utah - but he was a pedophile and convicted of murder. He had nothing to do with forgeries.

[Oldtrader3]

You are correct, I mispoke (another Senior Moment), sorry. Now that you mention it, I got it straightened out in my head. Now I remember that Arthur Bishop was executed some years ago and Mark Hoffman was murdered in prison 3-4 years ago.

[DWLange]

Mark Hoffman is still alive. He recently claimed to have forged the 1959-D wheat cent that's coming up for auction next month.

[GDJMSP]

Yes he did - but the FBI has discounted his story as a fabrication. Whether is or not - well that's another story - one I doubt any of us will ever know. But he certainly had the skill.