Got burned again

[Kenneth F]

So, got my results back from NGC for my 5 sets of 25th Anniversary. Not one 70 set. All my reverse proof coins are PF69.. and even got a MS68 in there too.

 

I think I hold the record for the worst grades thus far for these sets. Just my luck too.

 

Think I will finally give up on sending coins in and will just buy certified coins. Every one of my submissions have come back depressing.

[jtryka]

Sorry to hear about your luck, I have my doubts about the value of a 70 vs. 69 or 68, that's why my coins are all pristine in their original capsules in the lovely carrying case the mint provided for me at no extra charge!

[cpm9ball]

Sorry to hear the bad news.

 

There have been quite a few reports of coins found loose in the cases and just sliding around subject to who-knows-what damage while being shipped. I sent in a couple sets of the 2006 20th Anniversary Sets and only got one 70, but I made up my mind then that I will never buy another "special" set from the Mint to send in for grading if I can't examine them first.

 

Chris

[Jeffrey Cardona]

Sorry to hear the bad news. I know I had at least one coin bouncing around inside my shipment from the Mint. Most likely it was the reverse proof that got a 68.

[Matt Parsons]

I too am sorry to hear about the grades but they still are very nice at 68 or 69 or at 70.

There a lot of people out there who would love to own a set be it 68, 69, 70 or just a nice raw set. To have 5 sets must be a great feeling that most of us will never get to know, so instead of looking at what you don't have, look at what you do have and try to be happy and enjoy all 5 reverse proof coins with all 20 of the other magnificent coins.

I'm sure from a foot back no one can tell the difference anyways.

Still feel your pain though

Sincerely, Matt

[Kenneth F]

I just cant believe that the mint would have a set, with a small mintage, come back in such crappy grades! I know that Im not the only one that has been burned on this. Having coins just bouncing around in their boxes (outside of the acrylic capsules) is unacceptable. I have seen pictures posted of coins that have deep gouges and chips in them.

 

The Mint completed the biggest job this year. Horrible.

[jom]

Think I will finally give up on sending coins in and will just buy certified coins. Every one of my submissions have come back depressing.

 

Sorry to hear about your situation but by your reaction I think you've taken the correct "lesson" for the situation. Because.....

 

Sorry to hear about your luck, I have my doubts about the value of a 70 vs. 69 or 68, that's why my coins are all pristine in their original capsules in the lovely carrying case the mint provided for me at no extra charge!

 

...this. I agree with JT here. Sure, the values of some MS/PR 70 coins seems to hold up but I swear it's just a big huge joke on everyone. I mean, what's wrong with an MS68? I mean....it's MS SIXTY friggen EIGHT for crissakes!! Really, how much difference is there? What a crock.

 

It's even worse given you couldn't even LOOK at your coins first to see whether they were worth sending in in the first place. It's just gambling and speculation....so I didn't participate...I've learned my lessons on "sending coins in" and the "crack out" game. Enough!

 

Enjoy your coins...it's a very nice set.

 

jom

[Kenneth F]

Yea, but for a modern bullion coin.. a MS68 is just crazy. The mint talked these sets up big time.. minted only 100,000.. you would think that they would put more effort into making these coins. They put all their efforts into pimping them and not making them. Crappy standards if you ask me. Im not the only person with some serious heartburn over these coins now. Ive seen pictures that have raised my blood pressure. One guy posted pictures of coins with nasty gouges, scratches, chips in the rims. The Mint is supposed to produce fine coins, not garbage. Yea, not seeing the coins was the downfall and it was the luck of the draw, no doubt. Im just ticked that alot of coins were either impropery packaged or made with no care. Its like they gave the QA/QC folks the month off at the mint.

[mtnstyne]

If you would have seen how they are packaged you would understand how they could become damaged. I am not sure why, but the way the capsules sit in the sets if you tip them on their end or side they easily become loose inside the case. If they had put a small layer of bubble wrap or padding in the lid it would have held the coins in place.

 

I had the luxury of opening my 3 sets due to UPS repacking the box. In all the boxes the coins were loose but thankfully none of mine were damaged. Seems like a design flaw in the boxes...never meant to be tipped on end.

[Schatzy]

So, got my results back from NGC for my 5 sets of 25th Anniversary. Not one 70 set. All my reverse proof coins are PF69.. and even got a MS68 in there too.

 

I think I hold the record for the worst grades thus far for these sets. Just my luck too.

 

Think I will finally give up on sending coins in and will just buy certified coins. Every one of my submissions have come back depressing.

 

You submitted an unopened box, what do you except. You are basically playing poker, and this time your hand lost.

[jom]

I just cant believe that the mint would have a set, with a small mintage, come back in such crappy grades! I know that Im not the only one that has been burned on this. Having coins just bouncing around in their boxes (outside of the acrylic capsules) is unacceptable. I have seen pictures posted of coins that have deep gouges and chips in them.

 

I would think (hope?) that coins with gouges in them don't receive MS68. I hope...

 

jom

[leeg]

How about this one Ken:

 

 

 

 

Straight from the U.S. Mint to NGC.

 

As a retired Navy Senior Chief who served on the USS Saratoga (CV60) during Desert Shield and Storm, more important for me to encapsulate for long term storage than worry about the grade. Lost 20+ shipmates during a 7 1/2 month deployment.

 

Continue to learn and grow in the hobby and better results will come your way.

 

 

If I'm out of line in any way, just let me know. (thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

If you would have seen how they are packaged you would understand how they could become damaged. I am not sure why, but the way the capsules sit in the sets if you tip them on their end or side they easily become loose inside the case. If they had put a small layer of bubble wrap or padding in the lid it would have held the coins in place.

 

I had the luxury of opening my 3 sets due to UPS repacking the box. In all the boxes the coins were loose but thankfully none of mine were damaged. Seems like a design flaw in the boxes...never meant to be tipped on end.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is the contractor's responsibility to put these sets together in the presentation cases. It's my guess that the contractor is using capsules of inferior quality to save on costs. I've used a lot of AirTites (name brand) and I have never had one come open on it's own.

 

Even so, it is still the Mint's responsibility to ensure that the contractor is doing the job properly.

 

Chris

[Kenneth F]

How about this one Ken:

 

 

 

 

Straight from the U.S. Mint to NGC.

 

As a retired Navy Senior Chief who served on the USS Saratoga (CV60) during Desert Shield and Storm, more important for me to encapsulate for long term storage than worry about the grade. Lost 20+ shipmates during a 7 1/2 month deployment.

 

Continue to learn and grow in the hobby and better results will come your way.

 

 

If I'm out of line in any way, just let me know. (thumbs u

 

Now this is even worse of an example. A gold coin should be minted with skill, inspected for any flaws, and then packed in its OGP with care. Any modern bullion coin should set the standard for all to follow.. expecially from OUR mint.

 

Current Master Sergeant in the US Army (same as Senior Chief).. Ive lost more fellow Screaming Eagles than i care to talk about... still dont know what this has to do with crappy coins... but anyways..

 

I will always continue to learn and grow in the hobby.. been in this great hobby for 30 years now.. still, no excuse for the mint releasing poor coins.

[Kenneth F]

[quote=Schatzy

You submitted an unopened box, what do you except. You are basically playing poker, and this time your hand lost.

 

 

Oh, no doubt.. I drank the kool-aid again (first time in 2006 with the 20th set).. Its just bothers me that the mint would release coins of poor quality, especially after all the hype the mint spun for these sets.

[coin guy dan-migration]

i would have loved to have one of the sets straight from the mint.always the late procrastinator.worked late up early and when i got around to it ,it was too late.but,anything under 69 on these sets seems unacceptable to me.shame on the mint.

[James_OldeTowne]

Got burned again

Based on the activities you've described, I do not agree that you have been "burned".

[ncdaveo5]

According to a Coin World article,11/28/11 Vol. 52. Issue 2694 on page18,in the "Collectors begin reporting arrival of 25th Anniversary sets" article. Paragraph 3 says that the coins were assembled at the San Francisco Mint and were shipped from the fulfillment center in Indiana. The packaging of these sets falls on the hands of the Mint,they screwed many sets up. I had 2 of the "S" minted coins out of the capsules when NGC checked them in. One received MS 69 and the other MS 68. The Mint needs to do a better job with the packaging on ALL the products it sells.

 

Dave

[cpm9ball]

According to a Coin World article,11/28/11 Vol. 52. Issue 2694 on page18,in the "Collectors begin reporting arrival of 25th Anniversary sets" article. Paragraph 3 says that the coins were assembled at the San Francisco Mint and were shipped from the fulfillment center in Indiana. The packaging of these sets falls on the hands of the Mint,they screwed many sets up. I had 2 of the "S" minted coins out of the capsules when NGC checked them in. One received MS 69 and the other MS 68. The Mint needs to do a better job with the packaging on ALL the products it sells.

 

Dave

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is the contractor's responsibility to put these sets together in the presentation cases. It's my guess that the contractor is using capsules of inferior quality to save on costs. I've used a lot of AirTites (name brand) and I have never had one come open on it's own.

 

Even so, it is still the Mint's responsibility to ensure that the contractor is doing the job properly.

 

I believe that "Fulfillment Center" is the term the Mint opts to use for the contractor which is not a government agency.

 

Chris

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Got burned again

Based on the activities you've described, I do not agree that you have been "burned".

 

I wouldn't exactly say MS-68 or PR-67 are poor quality coins. These coins are nearly flawless, there is just one minor tick or a couple of bumps. I would say that if the majority of coins grades above MS-68, then the mint is doing an excellent job at creating high quality coins.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sorry to hear the bad news. I know I had at least one coin bouncing around inside my shipment from the Mint.

 

Ugh.

 

That's just awful.

 

[Schatzy]

Ken,

 

If you really want to talk about getting burned!! Try this one.

You must submit in a sealed package to get the Millennium Set on the label.

So the coin was packaged by (or for) the mint and I will never know how it got improperly cleaned.

[Kenneth F]

Schatzy,

 

OUCH.. how is that?

 

 

Ive heard that one 25th coin was graded "cleaned" by PCGS...

[Schatzy]

Schatzy,

 

OUCH.. how is that?

 

 

Ive heard that one 25th coin was graded "cleaned" by PCGS...

 

You got me

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Ken,

 

If you really want to talk about getting burned!! Try this one.

You must submit in a sealed package to get the Millennium Set on the label.

So the coin was packaged by (or for) the mint and I will never know how it got improperly cleaned.

 

What do you want to bet that the person at the "Fulfillment Center" (non-government employee) sneezed on the coin while putting it in the presentation case and then proceeded to wipe it off on his pants.

 

Chris

[ron consults-migration]

i'm a particular collector-one the dealers hate to see coming because i sit for hours and examine hundreds of coins just to find one. There IS a difference between a 70,69, and 68....

70 the grading company is taking a big chance here-coin must be perfect-and this grade usually goes to modern coins

69 there is a defect-usually not noticeable to the naked eye-but its there,perhaps a minute milk spot, carbon spot, etc....its small but there

68 there is more than one defect and you may be able to see it with naked eye.

Patience is the key and it will be rewarded....15X eyepiece helps alot but you need to get used to the over exaggeration....

[Schatzy]

i'm a particular collector-one the dealers hate to see coming because i sit for hours and examine hundreds of coins just to find one. There IS a difference between a 70,69, and 68....

70 the grading company is taking a big chance here-coin must be perfect-and this grade usually goes to modern coins

69 there is a defect-usually not noticeable to the naked eye-but its there,perhaps a minute milk spot, carbon spot, etc....its small but there

68 there is more than one defect and you may be able to see it with naked eye.

Patience is the key and it will be rewarded....15X eyepiece helps alot but you need to get used to the over exaggeration....

 

No offense but why in the world are you using 15x eyepiece. I love roosevelts and I can tell you the difference between 68, 69, and 70 with no eyepiece and I am 85% right after I send them to get graded. The big difference between a 70 and a 69 is the frosting on coin.

[cpm9ball]

i'm a particular collector-one the dealers hate to see coming because i sit for hours and examine hundreds of coins just to find one. There IS a difference between a 70,69, and 68....

70 the grading company is taking a big chance here-coin must be perfect-and this grade usually goes to modern coins

69 there is a defect-usually not noticeable to the naked eye-but its there,perhaps a minute milk spot, carbon spot, etc....its small but there

68 there is more than one defect and you may be able to see it with naked eye.

Patience is the key and it will be rewarded....15X eyepiece helps alot but you need to get used to the over exaggeration....

 

No offense but why in the world are you using 15x eyepiece. I love roosevelts and I can tell you the difference between 68, 69, and 70 with no eyepiece and I am 85% right after I send them to get graded. The big difference between a 70 and a 69 is the frosting on coin.

 

Well, my eyes aren't that good, so I do need some magnification to look for the minute flaws. My Hubble is out on loan right now.

 

Like Jaime, I usually examine the frost before anything. Using a 10x loupe and tilting the coin back-and-forth and up-and-down under the light can reveal even the minutest pinprick causing the underlying metal to glisten. The mirrored fields are a little harder for me, so I use my stereomicroscope, first. If I detect any slight nick or blemish, then I look at it with the loupe, but if it isn't visible with the loupe, then I dismiss it.

 

Chris

[coinman_23885]

i'm a particular collector-one the dealers hate to see coming because i sit for hours and examine hundreds of coins just to find one. There IS a difference between a 70,69, and 68....

70 the grading company is taking a big chance here-coin must be perfect-and this grade usually goes to modern coins

69 there is a defect-usually not noticeable to the naked eye-but its there,perhaps a minute milk spot, carbon spot, etc....its small but there

68 there is more than one defect and you may be able to see it with naked eye.

Patience is the key and it will be rewarded....15X eyepiece helps alot but you need to get used to the over exaggeration....

 

No offense but why in the world are you using 15x eyepiece. I love roosevelts and I can tell you the difference between 68, 69, and 70 with no eyepiece and I am 85% right after I send them to get graded. The big difference between a 70 and a 69 is the frosting on coin.

 

From your posts over the years, there is no doubt that you have an impressive track record with submitting coins; however, when you are dealing with modern coins where most are PR69/PR70 with large numbers of both, how can you be sure that your results aren't partially by chance alone? Is it truly possible to discern the difference between MS/PR 70 without the aid of magnification? If you can see an imperfection without a loupe, then I don't think the coin should be in a 69 holder any way.

[physics-fan3.14]

The big difference between a 70 and a 69 is the frosting on coin.

 

Which flavor do the graders prefer? I tried putting chocolate frosting in a flip with the coin, but the graders still didn't upgrade it. Should I try strawberry next time?