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Why I refuse to grade my coins with PCGS.

Started by noow,

50 posts in this topic

noow

noow

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I have a post count of 2 ATS ^^

 

noow

New Member

 

Posts: 3

Joined: Sep 2011

 

 

 

:baiting:

 

aren't we blessed...lol

Wow.. 50% more posts than I thought!

^^

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jom

jom

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I think most of the designations used by the TPG's are absurd but that's just me. I don't say "I'm not going to use such and such service" because of it though. However, noow certainly has the right to use whomever he pleases.

 

That all being said at this point I try not to use any of the services as I've given up any kind of cracking out NOR do I send coins in for regrade that I intend to keep. So unless I'm selling a coin I might think deserve an upgrade the TPG's don't get my money. This doesn't eliminate them completely but it's about as close as it gets.

 

jom

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ultra-crepidarian

ultra-crepidarian

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A couple observations on "First Strike" and "Early Releases": I know that this topic has been discussed ad nauseam but here are a couple insights that aren’t discussed often. What the designation actually means can only be determined within the context of the coin’s mintage and subsequent sale.

 

For example, take the 2012 one kilo silver proof Dragon coins sold by the Perth Mint. The mintage of the coin was limited to 500 units. They were all produced in one production run and were issued with a sequentially numbered COA. The coins went on sale on September 6, 2012 and sold out within two hours.

 

Only five coins have been submitted to NGC in time to receive the “Early Releases” designation. Any future coins sent in by collectors will not be eligible for that designation. So you may own coin number 495 and have it designated as an “Early Releases” when in actuality it was a relatively “Late Releases”. On the other hand, coin number 3 that is subsequently send in by a collector for grading in 2012, would not be eligible for an “Early Releases” label when in fact it was one of the first coins produced and sold.

 

A more intellectually honest label in this case would read “Early Graded”. From the TPGs perspective, one of the advantages of the “First Strike” and “Early Releases” programs is that it encourages early submissions and discourages individuals from sitting on ungraded modern coins. All things considered, the designations communicate little, if any, useful information about the coin and would not demand any premium in a better educated collector community.

 

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rons

rons

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The only useful information that is communicated is that these particular coins were not cracked out and submitted several times to achieve their grade. For a 69 it is pretty much useless but for a 70 it has some limited value. Very limited but .........

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messydesk

messydesk

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When "First Strike™" first came out, I recall Don Willis saying that you could call it silly if you wanted. While I do think it is silly, and the labels unattractive compared to normal ones, I do have to think that the odd demand for assorted labels of dubious numismatic meaning is helping suppress the cost increases that would otherwise manifest themselves as increases in grading fees. As such, I thank those that play the silly game of chasing every different colored piece of paper that any TPG chooses to put in their holders on any given day, as it's keeping my costs down.

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jom

jom

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As such, I thank those that play the silly game of chasing every different colored piece of paper that any TPG chooses to put in their holders on any given day, as it's keeping my costs down.

 

heh...I agree. You also forgot to add that many collectors seem to have to get their purchases "validated" but sending newly acquired coins to the TPGs. Unless the intent is to immediately sell the coins I find that ridiculous. Why pay now what you can put off for years?

 

jom

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Conder101

Conder101

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You also forgot to add that many collectors seem to have to get their purchases "validated" but sending newly acquired coins to the TPGs. Unless the intent is to immediately sell the coins I find that ridiculous. Why pay now what you can put off for years?

Cheaper to do now than in the future.

 

What I find amusing are the ones that find a coin that they just absolutely love, it's beautiful, just what they want for their collection. So they buy it, send it in for grading, and then when it comes back a point less than they hoped immediately sell it because it isn't good enough. If you thought is was beautiful before you sent it in, why isn't it still beautiful after it comes back??

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jom

jom

Posted
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You also forgot to add that many collectors seem to have to get their purchases "validated" but sending newly acquired coins to the TPGs. Unless the intent is to immediately sell the coins I find that ridiculous. Why pay now what you can put off for years?

Cheaper to do now than in the future.

 

What I find amusing are the ones that find a coin that they just absolutely love, it's beautiful, just what they want for their collection. So they buy it, send it in for grading, and then when it comes back a point less than they hoped immediately sell it because it isn't good enough. If you thought is was beautiful before you sent it in, why isn't it still beautiful after it comes back??

 

Actually, that was my point. So given the time value of money I'd say it's cheaper to do it LATER than now. Why put out the money now when you obviously enjoy the coin? Then again, maybe people don't enjoy the coin but the GRADE which is quite possible given the popularity of "First Strikes" and other inaccurate and overblown hype.

 

jom

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delta

delta

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For me, I don't understand why anyone would submit silver eagles to PCGS for slabbing, considering they seem to have so far failed to solve their problem with milk spots. ASEs in their slabs are disproportionally prone to developing white spots which reduce value and make coins unattractive. They once offered a $50,000. reward for anyone who could explain what they were doing wrong, but as far as I know, the reward has not been paid, and the explanation has not been found.

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

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What about the + designation. Doesn't PCGS charge extra to evaluate a coin for this vs NGC? This alone would deter me.

 

As far as mods, I really don't care to spend good money submitting them for slabbing (unless I need one to fill that odd slot on the slab bus). They come 69-70 from the mint for the most part anyhow. Then there is the bias of buyers who want the coin in the original mint packaging due to IRA rules. On top of that getting all the money for a 70 is not easy; you may get extra in a low no reserve auction than you would for a 69 once all the chips fall. Thats assuming there are some buyers out there willing to pay extra for a 70. At a coin shop forget it - you will get the line "We pay 97% of melt on mod gold as the refiner only gives 98%." It does not matter if the coin is slabbed or not. Slabbed 70? - you can sell it to them at their offer or go sell it somewhere else. Some shops may offer even less.

 

 

 

 

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robec1347

robec1347

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What about the + designation. Doesn't PCGS charge extra to evaluate a coin for this vs NGC? This alone would deter me.

 

The "+" is part of the grade. If a coin is sent to PCGS for grading, the cost remains the same no matter if it receives a 65 or a 65+.

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noow

noow

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What about the + designation. Doesn't PCGS charge extra to evaluate a coin for this vs NGC? This alone would deter me.

 

The "+" is part of the grade. If a coin is sent to PCGS for grading, the cost remains the same no matter if it receives a 65 or a 65+.

That is NGC grading. According to the PCGS website, they used to only merit the + designation if the coin was submitted for + designation review. As of August 1 2010, PCGS automatically reviews coins for the + designation for the Regular, Express, and Walkthrough tiers. All other tiers do not receive complimentary + reviews. (Nothing written about the Rarities or Ultra Rarities tiers)

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robec1347

robec1347

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What about the + designation. Doesn't PCGS charge extra to evaluate a coin for this vs NGC? This alone would deter me.

 

The "+" is part of the grade. If a coin is sent to PCGS for grading, the cost remains the same no matter if it receives a 65 or a 65+.

That is NGC grading. According to the PCGS website, they used to only merit the + designation if the coin was submitted for + designation review. As of August 1 2010, PCGS automatically reviews coins for the + designation for the Regular, Express, and Walkthrough tiers. All other tiers do not receive complimentary + reviews. (Nothing written about the Rarities or Ultra Rarities tiers)

 

I misunderstood then. So you're talking about PCGS charging to re-evaluate a coin for a "+" after it had already been graded. To me that is nothing more than a regrade. And yes, PCGS does charge for regrades.

 

I believe that it is possible to receive a "+" with an initial grading and that being the case, there is no extra charge.

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noow

noow

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What about the + designation. Doesn't PCGS charge extra to evaluate a coin for this vs NGC? This alone would deter me.

 

The "+" is part of the grade. If a coin is sent to PCGS for grading, the cost remains the same no matter if it receives a 65 or a 65+.

That is NGC grading. According to the PCGS website, they used to only merit the + designation if the coin was submitted for + designation review. As of August 1 2010, PCGS automatically reviews coins for the + designation for the Regular, Express, and Walkthrough tiers. All other tiers do not receive complimentary + reviews. (Nothing written about the Rarities or Ultra Rarities tiers)

 

I misunderstood then. So you're talking about PCGS charging to re-evaluate a coin for a "+" after it had already been graded. To me that is nothing more than a regrade. And yes, PCGS does charge for regrades.

 

I believe that it is possible to receive a "+" with an initial grading and that being the case, there is no extra charge.

It is possible to recieve a + designation with initial grading for the 3 tiers I listed above according to PCGS, but not for the other tiers.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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It is possible to recieve a + designation with initial grading for the 3 tiers I listed above according to PCGS, but not for the other tiers.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't PCGS extend the plus designation to all tiers?

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noow

noow

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It is possible to recieve a + designation with initial grading for the 3 tiers I listed above according to PCGS, but not for the other tiers.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't PCGS extend the plus designation to all tiers?

Linky Dinky

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robec1347

robec1347

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It is possible to recieve a + designation with initial grading for the 3 tiers I listed above according to PCGS, but not for the other tiers.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't PCGS extend the plus designation to all tiers?

Linky Dinky

 

Economy service was added Aug. 1, 2011.

Link

 

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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It is possible to recieve a + designation with initial grading for the 3 tiers I listed above according to PCGS, but not for the other tiers.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't PCGS extend the plus designation to all tiers?

Linky Dinky

 

Economy service was added Aug. 1, 2011.

Link

 

Thanks! I thought that I had read something to that effect. As you can tell, I haven't submitted anything in the last few months.

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