What grade are you generally drawn to?

[DonHeath]

I understand this question can be misconstrued. I know for each of us every coin tends to be an exception rather than the rule, and the answer likely varies greatly depending on the series we're discussing, but disclaimers aside, is there a particular grade your eye is naturally drawn to? I know for me there are a few. For my modern sets, I tend to look for 66's. I'm not concerned with perfection, but I don't like baggy, and PQ generally isn't expensive. For most other coins, I tend toward AU-55-58 and MS64. It seems like most 63's are simply too distracting. There are MANY f-xf's I really like, but when I'm walking looking at displays, I seem to be drawn by coins with luster. Color's nice, but I tend to like pastels with transparency more than wild. Do any of you suffer a similar affliction? I'd love to hear from good collectors what their natural inclination is. My question isn't intended as a critique of anyone's interest, but more an effort to understand differing interests.

[gmarguli]

For my classic commems, MS66 is the grade that I like. MS65s usually have too many marks for my tastes and MS67s aren't that much better than MS66s, but their price tag is a lot higher. The overall MS66 grade has the eye appeal and affordability.

 

For foreign thalers, the XF/AU grade is nice. Finding the coins in higher grades is really difficult and an XF/AU will still have most of the design detail, nice luster, yet have a pleasing original "used" look.

 

For the minor foreign coins (19th & 18th century) I prefer gem grades. The higher the better. These can be cherrypicked raw in superb grade, so no need to buy ugly ones.

[Wihlborg]

Don,

 

This is an excellent question, but one that I think is not as easily answered as it may seem at first. For instance, I love the detail and luster of higher grade mint state coins. When it comes to ‘classic’ coins I would have to say that my eye is drawn to the MS-66 grade, and for coins such as the modern commems I prefer to collect them in MS-69 & PF-69.

 

There is a problem however. What happens when the particular coin I am interested in is too expensive in the grade I like? Well, I have to settle for a lower grade. So I guess my favorite grade then becomes the one I can afford!

 

As for color, I’m with you, give me pastels that appear to be coming up from beneath the coins surface over ‘Wild’ any day.

 

John

[jom]

Grades: Depends on the series. If it is the Indian gold I tend to AU58 to MS62 because the better dates have a tendency to go up in price exponentially with grade.

 

Buffalo nickels will depend on the date. If it is a better date an MS63 is a good grade but many times if the coin is pretty it will have a strike that is less than desirable. If it is a good strike the luster/color will be crummy. I'll take the former before the latter.

 

On coins in general I'm probably drawn to the color first (even with gold) but it must have a good deal of luster under it. There must also be a lot of "white" on the coin...I do not care for totally toned coins. They tend to be lackluster or just too dark. Strike and marks seem to be low on my list probably because marks show up a lot on gold anyway (for the grades I buy) and Buffs usually don't get hit too much being that it is made of nickel and a small coin.

 

jom

[cladking]

AU-58. Whenever I see a gem with light even wear, I imagine a collector saved it from the ravages of circulation. In actuality probably most of them are mishandled gems.

[TomB]

The grade where the coin has the "look".

[errorist]

Leakers.

[Elcontador]

I collect type, and typically avoid weakly struck dates / mintmarks when possible.

 

IHC MS 65

Morgan $ MS 66

SLQ MS 66

Liberty Nickels MS 66

Seated Coinage MS 65

Barber Coinage Anything that isn't ugly

Shield Nickels See Barber Coinage

Capped Bust Coins MS 64

Braided Hair Coins MS 65

[michael]

The grade where the coin has the "look".

 

--------------------

Tom

Questions about toning? Read the articles on my web site.

Ivy League Coin

=================================================

 

as per the above i agree with tomb!!

 

He sums this up really REALLY well

 

now for example.............

 

if the coin is a chain cent,,,,,,, i have seen a totally fantastic one that had perfect even smooth surfaces totally original and with no problems with really superb eye appeal it graded poor one at pcgs it had the "look" best overall chain i had ever seen in lower circ grade bar none

 

so in this context i was drawn to the poor one chain because of the "look" of this coin

 

 

another example was a totally monster toned boone the finest toned boone overall i had ever seen bar none from the middle 1930's it happened to be in an ms67 holder rainbow arc toned and is a no brainer ms68 easy to me it was a few years ago so the price it was being offered at was really not that bad in other words it was a value coin to me

 

so in this context i was drawn to the ms67 grade BECAUSE OF THE "look" of the coin

 

one more example was a pre 1835 capped bust silver coin i saw many years ago graded ms64 and was the only monster toned rainbow totally original never dipped thick glazed skinned pre 1835 silver coin i had ever seen bar none to me it is really close to ms66 if not ms66 and the price was within reason so to me a value coin

 

so in this context i was drawn to the ms64 grade beacause of the "LOOK" of the coin

 

so for me if the coin is amazing and totally superlative for what it is and is a value buy and/or goes up multiples in the next grade in my minds eye then i could be drawn to any grade depending on the specific coin if it has the "look"

 

 

 

michael

[michael]

a monster great thread with super astute replies

 

 

michael

[mommam17]

I always buy either MS 65 or 66 in my classic commems. These are the right coins at the right price for me. The only MS64`s I bought were the Monroe and Sesqui because of the big jump in 65 prices and they are low in my "commem apprection list".

[IrishMike]

Same as what Michael and Tom have said. A couple of FUN shows ago I went looking for coins in certain grades and ended buying none of them. I ended up with some cents that had the look I like.

[Leothelion]

The grade where the coin has the "look".

 

I would need to agree! Just what is a MS65 coin or a MS66 for that matter? If your searching for coins that are all brilliant or toned or fully strucked or a combination of these aspects of a coin then the number on the holder becomes nonsense. Personally, I don't want a coin with distracting marks in the focal areas. But that's me, my main interests are collecting the modern FS Jefferson nickel series. But for the classic coin collectors of rare dates like the 1916-D Mercery dime, for most collectors, affording one in a G to F condition can be very gratifying. I would certainly buy one.

The numbers only provide a window of coins that I might enjoy owning but they would need to measure up to what I collect. I'm not merely buying up MS67 slabs to fill up a peg board! It would be silly to ask a dealer if he had any MS67 slabs then moving on if he didn't! Certainly, I would expect a certified MS67 coin to look better than a MS66 coin but this has proved somewhat disappointing, to say the least. I have MS64 coins that look just as nice as the MS67 coins in my collection. Why that is has to do with the inconsistensy of the grading companies grading coins over the years. Why a markfree EDS coin with a dark tone certifies at MS65 while a coin with a softer strike and a nick on the cheek but has great luster grades a MS67 is beyond me. For the true coin collectors, the quality of the coin is what matters, not the numbers. I could easily grade many of the lower certified coins in my collection as MS66 and MS67 coins! And I could call a handful of MS68's as well! But what's the point?

 

Leo

 

Leo

[Elcontador]

Leo,

 

I collect type, not date, so I typically collect dates that are more readily available than others, and also don't have notorious striking problems (ie, I do not spend my time looking for a 24 D SLQ that's FH).

 

For me, I find that the grades I listed above for specific type coins are the lowest grades where the particular coin has "the look," as Tom said. That's not to say just because a coin is in this grade, it has the look. No way.

 

Just for instance: Walkers below MS 66 typically have too many contact marks on Miss Liberty's skirt for my liking. Re Liberty Nickels, I find that the ones I've seen grading MS 65 & lower typically either a) have too many contact marks, b) too many striking problems, or most often c) unattractive luster (ie, the coin looks dead or has the infamous "urine colored" toning).

 

Just putting this in to help clarify my earlier post.

[lclugza]

I like MS65 or PRF65; I think coins in those grades are beautiful. But I'll take an MS64 if I really like the looks of it, or a PRF66 if it isn't priced much more than a PRF65.

[chinook]

I find myself looking at coins that are either MS-65+, AU-58 or G-04 or less.

 

As with several other comments, the coin has to have the right look. Obviously an MS-65 must be all there, many 58's look better than 63's and the G04's must be problem free.

[Bruceswar]

For many series VF 20 is good for circulation stikes... and if you are going for high grades... then any one that does not have alot of marks on it.

[EZ_E]

To rehash most sentiments, I am drawn by the look. Ideally, I would prefer proof 65 cameo or above for my type collection. Unfortunately, budget will not allow such expenditures. So, I'll purchase PR 64 cameo like on my 1885 Seated Liberty Quarter:

 

 

It would easily grade 65 but for the scratch at 11:00 on the obverse. However, in person, it is not so noticable.

 

One thing that I absolutely detest is hairlines. Unfortunately, sometimes, there is no choice but to settle. In that case, one must balance eye-appeal vs. budget. If the coin is all there otherwise then I may settle if the hairlines are not too obvious. I've made a recent purchase of a type coin that is rare in high grades, the toning is good and covers up some miniscule hairlines. They are impossible to see anyway except under the right lighting conditions and at the right angle.

 

Some coins are just great because of their unusual toning. Like this '42 war proof nickel for instance:

 

 

I just love the sky blue toning over Monticello. It really gives it personality.

 

AU 58, in some instances, are much more desirable than MS60-62. This is because the AU 58 example may be disqualified from the 63-64 grade because of slight rub. Generally, the 60-62 range has unsightly contact marks and the like. And I know that a half a dozen collectors out there could prove me wrong but I am speaking in generalities.

 

I am now seeking PR 65-66 cameo examples of the Liberty nickel and the three cent nickel. On these two examples, I will not settle for anything less than beautiful. I will absolutely reject any hairlined specimens because they are simply too distracting to me for these issues. Besides, they are relatively plentiful in such grades and are reasonably priced for the less scarce dates.

 

Yesterday, I gave someone twenty bucks for a Fine example of the Seated Liberty arrows and rays quarter. It has been cleaned and is simply going to serve as a filler until I get around to a nicer example. I certainly wouldn't have spent much more for a filler coin, however.

 

Another very important point. One had better darn well know what they are looking at when buying their coins! In my case, I am buying slabbed coins that suit my taste and will break them out and place them into my Dansco type album. Believe me, there are plenty of coins out there in all holders that should never be there. But the market supports them and that just the way things are. My point is: If I would buy a problem coin in a slab and break it out, then raw, its value would be cut in half! One should never settle for a less.

 

Well, I guess that I've commenced to rambling so I'll cut it short. In summary, I buy a coin with decent eye-appeal withing my budget and will avoid problem coins whether slabbed or not.

 

Victor

[solid]

Most 20th century coins I like in lustrous MS66/MS67.

 

For some reason, however, I am really drawn to the perfect

VF/XF Walking Liberty halves and Standing Liberty quarters.

For me, these two coins make for some of the most pleasing

circulated issues when you can find them with that natural

grey and darker-in-the-crevices look. A well-matched set

like this is certainly good looking!

 

Ken

[MikeKing]

The grade where the coin has the "look".

 

I truly have to agree with that.

I used to have this thing where I got into upping the ante for what I thought were higher and higher 'quality' coins. Over time, I found some really nice coins that were 'lower' grades. Over more time, I began to appreciate coins for what they had rather than an assigned grade, and quite honestly, if most people had no idea that an MS68 existed, I doubt they would yearn for one, and if they did...so what!

 

I must say that when it comes to Morgans, I love MS67. I would easily however pay through the nose for a stunning MS64. The more I look, the more I study, the more I see that there are plenty of gorgeous coins MS64, AU, even EF and so on...

 

I haven't found a shield nickle (to buy) that I like...yet...and when I do, the LAST thing I'll look at is the numerical grade because it simply won't matter.

[DonHeath]

Fascinating, as always. Thanks to those who posted their thoughts.

[Bruceswar]

WIhlborg.. You mean colors like this???

 

[jom]

Well "grade", as it is used today, DOES matter. Why? Because when I look through coins at an auction or at a bourse table I do the following:

 

1) Look at the coins to see if I like any ie has the "look".

2) If I do I THEN notice it's grade.

3) I'll know at that point whether I can AFFORD the coin OR whether it's in a grade that has too big of a price jump for my tastes.

4) Even if it is in a too high of grade I'll still look. If it is a high end piece I might go for it anyway...unless, of course, the absolute price is too high to afford.

 

When I mentioned AU58 earlier I meant that that is a grade that you can find many very nice pieces that are "depressed" in price due to the fact it is AU...even when many of these pieces are high quality than their MS brothers.

 

jom

[Conder101]

It depends on the series but in general VF-30 to XF-40 tends to be my favorite range. The coins so a little wear to prove they have done their duty but most of the detail is still there and the color is usually pretty nice.

[Wihlborg]

Bruce,

 

It’s was not so much the colors I was talking about, it was more the ‘look’ of the color if any. I like when the color ‘looks’ like it is coming up from beneath the surface of the coin as opposed to sitting on top of the surface. The coin in your post does have the type of ‘look’ I was referring to.

 

I would like to add one other point to this discussion. I see that a number of board members have posted that they are drawn more to the ‘look’ of a coin than the grade. I think that would be the most natural instinct to a seasoned coin collector, as no one would want a coin that they do not feel is eye appealing to them.

 

IMO the ‘look’ that a collector may like could probably be found in any number of grades depending on the coin, so I did not take Don’s question of ‘What grade are you generally drawn to’ to mean that someone would buy ANY coin in the grade that they prefer. Obviously, the coin would have to have the ‘look’ the collector likes in the preferred grade or the astute collector will pass on that particular coin.

 

Like IrishMike, I have gone home empty handed from coin shows more than I would have liked because I could not find the coins I wanted, in the grades I wanted, with the ‘look’ I was after. Although disappointing, this is actually something I would recommend more collectors do, as in the long run it is far more disappointing to settle on a coin you are not absolutely happy with, only to find an example of the same coin later that has exactly the ‘look’ you were after.

 

John

[Hoot]

Great thread Don. Grade is such an amalgam of coin characteristics that Tom's answer is central to the question.

 

Like most of you, it depends also for me upon the series. With nickels, I am simply mesmerized by many coins that grade MS67. These pieces often epitomize the series and/or issue. Usually the details are fantastic, devices are crisp, fields are satin smooth and the coin's luster is great. Toning at this level is usually inconsequential to me, although I prefer coins with pretty natural colors. Just to note, with Jefferson nickels, full steps are nearly meaningless to me, personally, when it comes to the MS67 grade, as the grade usually speaks for other aspects of strike and surface preservation that are more important to me. Full steps are just a bonus. With buffalo nickels at this level, fullness of strike is important but even less so than a lack of die deterioration and luster. I love a fully struck buffalo nickel, but I REALLY love one with no evidence of die fatigue, which is rare. Liberty nickels are the same for me in that vein. (But I only collect them in MS64!) Shields are in a category by themselves. Their collection warrants a much more serious study of dies, die pairing, die state, and significant attention to details of each line in the shield and leaf on the wreath. Evenness of strike from edge-to-edge on the coin is also something to watch carefully for, irrespective of grade.

 

Okay, I rambled enough for nickels. Just a couple of other comments...

 

Classic commems: I look for MS65 and MS66 examples that look totally original and have great toning. And to me, great toning is not always of the rainbow type.

 

Modern commems: MS or PF69 is THE grade for me. Just a preference and not a condemnation of other grades. For example, a person could collect the entire series in 68 for a song and have a really great collection.

 

Hoot