Simple question: does anyone actually care about PCGS "secure plus"?

[James_OldeTowne]

A simple question that I hope elicits responses from both sides. I ask because in my travels through the hobby, I very rarely see slabs with the "shield".

 

Personally, I think the PCGS shield looks just like the "Symantec Endpoint Protection" icon that appears in the corner of my computer screen.

[noow]

I don't use PCGS- they are still labeling coins with "First Strike" and don't seem geared toward collectors.

[RWB]

It seems to matter to those who value stickers and + or - signs more than the quality of the coin. The fine discrimination implied by closely spaced numerical grades and assorted modifiers is nothing more than fantasy and self-delusion.

[Old Pueblo]

I guess it the continued push towards assurance that the item is genuine and a shield to prove it. Some day it will come with a blinking light and a insurance policy!

 

I do not own a coin with the secure plus shield, but it would not deter me from bidding. Probably NOT pay up for the sticker.

 

 

 

OP

[Conder101]

I'm slowly seeing more and more of them.

 

The problem seems to come from the extra (high) fee you have to pay to get the coins scanned, sniffed, etc. PCGS seems to have realized this somewhat as they extended the service to more tiers and lowered the fee, but I don't see it as being of any practical benefit until it is commonplace and routinely applied to all submissions. The ONLY real benefit I see in the program is the fact that it can identify a coin if it is resubmitted. This has the potential of recovering stolen coins. If your PCGS coins are stolen you report the serial numbers to PCGS along with a police report and even if they are cracked out, if they are sent in again they are flagged as reported stolen. It would also encourage people to buy PCGS slabbed coins since they would now have that protection. Raw coins might be even harder to sell because "they MIGHT be stolen, so send them to PCGS and get a `clean title' for them". This may encourage more submissions.

 

On the downside, as far a PCGS is concerned, is that if it was done routinely it would end the crackout resubmission game. Why send a PCGS coin back in when you know it will be identified and given the same grade. Of course since the crossovers will still be possible there will still be coins being crossed over to NGC trying for a higher grade, and former PCGS coins now in NGC slabs being crossed back. This may give PCGS headaches though since if they think it will cross, they go ahead and crack it out. Then the scan/sniffer identifies it as a lower graded coin PCGS coin. Now what do you do? Put it in a higher graded slab than what the DB says it should be?

[BillJones]

I have two Secure Plus coins.

 

The first one is a 1913 quarter in PR-64 that is very high end for the grade. This coin led me to the erroneous assumption that Secure Plus coins were going to be higher end coins for the grade. WRONG! I didn’t like the next several Secure Plus coins I saw at all.

 

My second Secure Plus coin is an 1851-C gold dollar in MS-63. It’s okay for the grade, but not terrific. The coin is original, but it’s a late die state and not a super strike.

 

Overall Secure Plus is like CAC for me. I don’t go out of my way to find coins with the shield or the green bean, but if it’s there, and I like the coin for the money, I’ll buy it.

 

[Chris1976]

My own personal view is that the secure plus, cac, +, etc are nothing more than a "comfort blanket" within the graded coins market. Some come with an added cost such as secure plus and cac for example. The harsh truth of the matter is that grading of coins is based on others opinions, secure plus and cac are simply stickers and/or labels that say that the opinion of the grade has been agree'd on by more than one viewer, which comes back to the inconsistancy of grades issued by TPG's. Unfortunately, there's really no way to bring consistancy to an opinion.

 

With that being said, I don't get all pumped up ( if anything it causes me to hold my wallet that much tighter ) if I see a shield or a bean simply because I believe that if a coin had been good enough to obtain the next grade higher than is on its label, it would have gotten it in the first place. They are just ways to charge more for a coin that may or may not have earned that selling price on its own merrit. Same goes for the "early release" or "first strike" labels, its all just a marketing ploy to earn a little more money from potential purchasers.

 

Again, these are my views and not everyone will agree/disagree with them.

 

-Chris#2

[MarkFeld]

......

On the downside, as far a PCGS is concerned, is that if it was done routinely it would end the crackout resubmission game. Why send a PCGS coin back in when you know it will be identified and given the same grade....

Even though the "Secure Plus" submissions are supposedly scanned and finger-printed, coins re-submitted under that tier are not precluded from receiving higher grades. In fact, I know a number of submitters who have been successful with "Secure Plus" re-grades.

[jom]

I don't use PCGS- they are still labeling coins with "First Strike" and don't seem geared toward collectors.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "don't use" but I certainly agree that PCGS isn't really geared toward collectors. In fact, I've always felt all of the TPGs are essentially for dealers but PCGS is probably the "worst" in that regard.

 

It seems to matter to those who value stickers and + or - signs more than the quality of the coin. The fine discrimination implied by closely spaced numerical grades and assorted modifiers is nothing more than fantasy and self-delusion.

 

That last sentence I cannot agree more with. "fantasy and self-delusion" run rampant in the coin market. I'm sure I've done the same over the years and it's hard to get away from. We keep saying "buy the coin not the holder" yet more and more of these "products" keep coming out: pluses, stars, strike designations, shields, green and yellow beans and on and on and on...

 

jom

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Hmmmmmm....

 

First-full disclosure: I don't have ANY knowledge at this time of Secure +,-,%, *, etc., or how to submit for such a service or what would be a reason for using the service.

 

I am curious.

 

If, and I use the word "if" with fear, a person uses the service, it would stand to reason that the person would clearly understand what the service is offering and what the "value" of the service is to the user.

 

Based on comments, there is not a clear understanding of what the offer of the service is or the value of the service.

 

There is an indication that the service provider has failed in marketing endeavors.

 

A for profit service would, of course, offer a better mousetrap, or, thru superior marketing skills, offer the perception that a better mousetrap is being offered for consideration, and this would trigger sales and profits and, ideally, satisfied customers that would become repeat customers.

 

Various words and phrases from comments, in no particular order:

 

"not pay up"

"fantasy"

"don't seem"

"implied"

"inconsistency"

"even though"

"consistency"

"harsh truth"

"no way"

"may or may not"

"are not precluded"

"downside"

"supposedly"

"game"

"same grade"

"higher grade"

'WRONG" (my favorite- the caps says it all)

"problem"

 

There are many more, and I am not trying to be rude by not using a word or phrase from a comment.

 

All words and phrases have been used by persons that I have come to know thru cyberspace as knowledgeable numismatists and certainly reasonable people with a superior ability to know a numismatic value, when offered.

 

The question: Would you, as the CEO of the service provider company, be having an emergency meeting with the present marketing director, with a back-up hitter in the next office?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

 

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

The problem seems to come from the extra (high) fee you have to pay to get the coins scanned, sniffed, etc. PCGS seems to have realized this somewhat as they extended the service to more tiers and lowered the fee, but I don't see it as being of any practical benefit until it is commonplace and routinely applied to all submissions. The ONLY real benefit I see in the program is the fact that it can identify a coin if it is resubmitted.

Here is where the cynic in me takes over. I have this strange feeling that it's yet another political move on PCGS's part, and it's motivated by technological limitation.

 

I'd bet that the supersecret "sniffer" really only "kinda" works, and that if there were huge populations, it would be unable to discriminate between smells. In other words, I suspect that many similar coins smell the same, and that the sniffer CAN'T tell them apart once the population exceeds a certain amount.

 

Therefore, they would need to limit the population.... by making the service costly.

 

But, this is entirely a guess on my part.

 

As for coins in the "secure" holders, I have been terribly disappointed by their quality. If the discussion had to come down to "which is more reliable, the sticker or the shield", I'd definitely side with the sticker.

 

(Of course, under no practical circumstances would I buy either sight-unseen.)

[gmarguli]

Other than a few Kool-Aid drinkers, I've never found anyone who cared about the Secure Plus service. I still fail to see what value it provides to me that I should pay extra for it when slabbing.

 

[RWB]

But......but....The Marketers say You Must Have This! You are a FAILURE without this fantastic advantage of "Secure Plus"tm. --- and none of us wants to be a FAILURE !

[physics-fan3.14]

Nope, couldn't care less. If I see a coin I like at a price I like, I'll buy it. Doesn't matter to me if there is a green bean or a yellow shield or a red whats-it on the coin. I buy the coin, not the holder or accessories.

[noow]

Nope, couldn't care less. If I see a coin I like at a price I like, I'll buy it. Doesn't matter to me if there is a green bean or a yellow shield or a red whats-it on the coin. I buy the coin, not the holder or accessories.

 

Changed that for ya.

[RWB]

What's a "Red Whats-it"? How do I get it on my coin holders? Will my coins be worth more and of higher grade...? Help!! I need to know right away before the sky falls and another stupid cowboy ------. ..instant gratification.....needed....

[noow]

Red First Strike label?

[brg5658]

Red First Strike label?

 

I have a 1973 Type 2 Ike dollar graded by PCGS with a red sticker in an oval shape, with the word "DIVA" through the middle. I have no idea what it is, but it was there when I purchased it. Is that what you're referring to??

 

DIVA Website

[physics-fan3.14]

Nope, couldn't care less. If I see a coin I like at a price I like, I'll buy it. Doesn't matter to me if there is a green bean or a yellow shield or a red whats-it on the coin. I buy the coin, not the holder or accessories.

 

Changed that for ya.

 

Speak for yourself. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

 

I buy the coin, not the holder. That means if I see a 66 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 66 prices. If I see a 64 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 64 prices (which means, of course, I won't buy it since the seller more than likely won't be reasonable).

 

[J.A. Collection]

I buy the coin, not the holder. That means if I see a 66 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 66 prices. If I see a 64 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 64 prices (which means, of course, I won't buy it since the seller more than likely won't be reasonable).

Makes sense to me! (thumbs u

[MarkFeld]

I buy the coin, not the holder. That means if I see a 66 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 66 prices. If I see a 64 coin in a 65 holder, I'll pay 64 prices (which means, of course, I won't buy it since the seller more than likely won't be reasonable).

Makes sense to me! (thumbs u

If a seller has a 64 coin in a 65 holder and wont sell it for 64 money, that's not being unreasonable. Some people will pay 65 money for it anyway (whether or not they think the coin is over-graded), and he'd be foolish to sell it for 64 money.

[Walkerfan]

Makes no difference to me.

 

Only benefit is the security scan.

 

The plus part means nothing.

 

Honestly, I avoid plus coins b/c they almost always command a premium and are, likewise, almost never worth it.

[coinman_23885]

Yes. It's nice to know that an expensive coin has been through the "sniffer" or whatever they call it over there.

[michael]

Simple question: does anyone actually care about PCGS "secure plus"?

 

i dont give a rats about secure plus

[leeg]

Ho Hum.

[e1cnr]

many people feel this is the greatest advancement in numismatics in recent years

 

 

to answer your question, I can name a few off the top of my head ,,, Hall, Willis, ..

 

 

 

 

does this mean if they recognize, hey we graded this coin last year - we don't need to run it through the grading room, straight to the slabbing room?

 

even if they got it wrong the first time?

[Conder101]

I'd bet that the supersecret "sniffer" really only "kinda" works, and that if there were huge populations, it would be unable to discriminate between smells. In other words, I suspect that many similar coins smell the same, and that the sniffer CAN'T tell them apart once the population exceeds a certain amount.

The sniffer doesn't tell the coins apart, that is the job of the scanner that develops the digital fingerprint. The sniffer just detects if the coin has been treated with anything. (And I still suspect that the sniffer is not foolproof, and that materials used to treat the coin can be sufficiently rinsed away so that they are no detectible. Only those chemicals which are intended to remain on the coin (oils, putty etc) would always be detected.

 

The "Secure Plus" has nothing to do with the quality of the coin, just the fingerprinting and chemical detection. While the plus grades were originally only available with the secure plus submission they changed that and supposedly they are now on other tiers as well. So Secure Plus grading is no different than the grading in the other tiers.

[James_OldeTowne]

Mike, thanks for the correction.

[RWB]

My dog has a super sniffer, too. bet he could be trained to detect coins touched by a specific person.

[Houston Investor]

I dont care about pcgs anything as I slab thru NGC.

 

Dont go for stuff like plus, secure, stickers either. For me it is the coin and where it falls in the grade range and if I can acquire it at a price which fits my business model. Dont necessarily do big ticket coins over $1000 either except for modern bullion issues.

 

Most coins I buy are coins I can buy right and flip for an instant profit otherwise no interest as I have plenty of material to fill my cases at shows.