Is there a reason why Pcgs makes more PR69dcam's then 68's?

[Leothelion]

PCGS PR68DCAM

 

PCGS PR69DCAM

 

Granted all submitters must know how to spot the highest gradable coins! Or,

Obviously the US Mint consistantly churns out near perfecto proof products!

There are no PR65 or PR66dcams and only 9 PR67dcams up on ebay today.

The twister to all this is that one dealer has over 60% of the 69's! Perhaps this is the reason for the lobsided figures?

 

Pcgs has said very few people know how to grade coins but what gives here?

 

Leo

[Leothelion]

While everyone is pondering the answer to this enema of a dilemma, here's some pleasant music to help you through your day! Cante Libre

 

Leo

[TJ]

No offense, KJ, but that music sucked.

[LucyBop]

Get real Daddy-o!!!!

 

That sound is SQUARESVILLE!!!!!

 

 

The joint will not Jump with that and the Hepcats will really disappear!

 

Laters!

 

 

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeech!

 

(the HepKitty peels out in her 55 Chevy)

[currentcoin]

That's easy the answer is "gmarguli " submitted them all

 

 

Glen

[Leothelion]

No offense, KJ, but that music sucked.

 

I guess I'm the mellowed out kind of guy! To each his own.....as long as it doesn't screw up the hobby!

 

And Lucy! You got it!!!

 

Leo

[Russ-migration]

Is there a reason why Pcgs makes more PR69dcam's then 68's?

 

Probably the same reason NGC makes more PR69UCAMs than 68's.

 

Russ, NCNE

[TomB]

I can think of three reasons here, and they are related to one another. The first is that there are many bulk submitters who are simply quite good at anticipating those coins that will grade a minimum PF69 at PCGS and they use this as their cutoff for submission. The second is that there might be bulk submissions that use PF69 as the minimum grade such that all PF68 and below coins are not graded and put in a holder. The last is that the PF69 grade window may be disproportionately large at PCGS, when compared to the PF68 or PF67 windows.

 

It is my belief that as MS and PF coins get higher in grade that the grade window, or range, becomes smaller. This leads to a higher relative error rate, all things being constant, for higher graded coins. The assumption of all things being constant is not necessarily correct, but the services like to tell us that they treat all coins with respect, therefore, they imply that all things should be constant. The PF69 window may be larger than the other windows because the other windows are kept artificially small (similar to the MS68 window for silver Washington quarters, which is just opening up in the last year) or it might be because the value difference between a PF69 and a PF68 or PF67 is so small as to allow for leniency in the grade scale.

 

Many bulk sumitters do this for a living, know what the services are looking for in coins and know that for some issues the PF69 grade is the difference between losing money on a slab and making it. Hence, they weed out those coins that are obviously not of the highest quality and may ask PCGS not to grade the ones that slip through. This would keep the relative PF69 rate higher than one might anticipate.

 

Was any of this clear?

 

PS: Russ, you should post here more often. It seems as though when you do post here that you are not happy.

[jom]

or it might be because the value difference between a PF69 and a PF68 or PF67 is so small as to allow for leniency in the grade scale.

 

I agree which leads me to my favorite two words: Who cares?

 

jom

[Leothelion]

The second is that there might be bulk submissions that use PF69 as the minimum grade such that all PF68 and below coins are not graded and put in a holder.

 

Hi Tom

This reason, if it occurs and I imagine it does, messes up the pops. Regardless, the coin would still need to be looked at whether it gets slabbed or not?.Aren't they still charged for the service?

 

Leo

 

Yeah Russ! Welcome to the boards! We're not all pro pcgs!

[TomB]

I've never used this service, however, as far as I understand it, if one marks that they need a minimum grade of PF69 (or some other grade) then those coins that meet the minimum grade are charged the full grading fee and slabbed while those that fail to meet the minimum grade are charged only a nominal handling fee and returned raw.

[gmarguli]

Many times those that don't meet the minimum grade aren't charged any fee at all.

[Leothelion]

Sounds like another great service brought to us by no other than pcgs. The dealers sort them and then pcgs does some more sorting and the final result is a distorted pop report. We have 9 67's, 55 68's and 691 69 dcams for sale on ebay! Certainly, the window of marketing exists in the 69 and 70 grades as it's a waste of time, profit wise, to have the lower grades certified. Whether good or bad for the hobby there's something wrong with not charging for all coins graded and holdering the 67 and 68 dcams! For that guy who had over 400 of those 69 dcams up on ebay, it would be interesting to know just how many didn't make 69, for the public record. For sure we know how many didn't make 70dcam!

 

Leo

[Russ-migration]

Sounds like another great service brought to us by no other than pcgs. The dealers sort them and then pcgs does some more sorting and the final result is a distorted pop report.

 

Could you be a little more bias? It's not quite obvious enough. NGC does the same thing. It's how bulk submissions work.

 

Russ, NCNE

[Leothelion]

Sounds like another great service brought to us by no other than pcgs. The dealers sort them and then pcgs does some more sorting and the final result is a distorted pop report.

 

Could you be a little more bias? It's not quite obvious enough. NGC does the same thing. It's how bulk submissions work.

 

Russ, NCNE

 

Hi Russ

Then they're both wrong if you've missed my point! All coins submitted/viewed should be charged, graded and added to the pops. The US Mint should just send their products to the grading companies so they can keep marketing a particular MS or PR grade. Then the dealers or whoever can just buy them in bulk and pass them onto the collectors through registry point auctions. Wouldn't you agree?

Unless, of course, it's a crossover submisson.

Of course I'm bias. Is there any wonder why?

 

Post here more Russ! It's got to be getting old and boring over yonder, don't you think!

 

Leo

[gmarguli]

The US Mint should just send their products to the grading companies so they can keep marketing a particular MS or PR grade. Then the dealers or whoever can just buy them in bulk and pass them onto the collectors through registry point auctions. Wouldn't you agree?

 

You have to wonder if that day is coming. I do wonder if the day when circulation coins are taken fresh off the die (like modern commems) and sold to collectors directly is coming. And from there why not have the mint submit it to the grading services. Lots of money to be made by the mint.

[jom]

Lots of money to be made by the mint.

 

And....I wonder who else...

 

jom

[solid]

I could be wrong here, and perhaps it is all open to negotiation, but I believe that when sending in a bulk submission with a minimum grade to slab, that a certain percentage of your coins must meet that grade or you are charged a fee for all the ones that did not.

 

Ken

[gmarguli]

That is correct. Those numbers depend on who you are and how much you submit. Most common number I have heard is 60% must slab to not pay any fee. Sometimes they charge a flat dollar rate minimum. For example, you send in 1,000 coins and they will charge you a minimum of $6,000 (or $8 a coin). Now if only one coins slabs at the minimum grade you pay $6,000 (minimum cost). If 200 slab, you pay $6,000 (minimum cost). If 750 slab, you pay $6,000 ($8 * 750). If 800 slab, you pay $6,400 ($8 * 800).