Grading Pan-Pac $50 gold pieces

[BillJones]

I got hooked on the “old” commemorative gold series at the 2010 FUN show. One day, I hit every table on the floor looking for the gold dollars and Pan-Pac $2.50. I found all them in holders and grades that I liked except for the Pan-Pac $2.50. I’m a bit fussy, and I did not care for the coins I saw. It would take me several months of searching auctions, shows and the Internet before I found the right one. Finally Harry Laibstain came up with one in MS-66 on his website that he called a gem, and it certainly was.

 

I went to the fall Baltimore show looking for a Pan-Pac octagonal. For once I was looking for one with a CAC sticker because of all problems I’d heard about pieces with putty repairs. I’d spotted a couple of suspicious pieces (in slabs) in years past when I’d been working on a want list for a customer. The Baltimore show yielded nothing. The best available were in low end MS holders. One had a big scratch on the cheek at WAY over the Gray Sheet bid price, and the other, in an MS-62 holder, was a slider with rub on Minerva’s cheek. And oh yes, there is another octagonal piece that looks like it’s been through a meat grinder. It is in a PCGS “genuine” hold. It was found during the demolition of a building from I’ve heard, and it’s available for something over $20,000.

 

I better luck at the winter FUN show. I found a PCGS MS-64 octagonal with the CAC sticker. The price was high IMO, but at least it had what I required, which prompted me to buy it.

 

 

I figured that I was done because of the high price of the round piece, but then lighting struck. I spotted this piece in the case of local Florida dealer whom I know well. It is in an NGC MS-64, CAC holder. I went over this piece carefully, and I could barely find a blemish on it. Furthermore that price was at the Gray Sheet range. I thought to myself, “This is no going to happen again if I pass now.” So I bought it. I had sat though the Heritage Platinum auction a couple nights before and seen some handwriting on the wall. The prices there seemed pretty strong to me for the most part.

 

 

This leads me to a discussion of how these coins are graded. The PCGS MS-64 octagonal will never be an up-grade candidate IMO. It’s got a couple of tiny marks and a few spots here than there. It is an MS-64, but that’s it. Yet it has fewer marks than most any MS-65 graded St. Gaudens $20 that I have seen.

 

The NGC MS-64 is blow out coin - Full luster, virtually no marks. I don’t why it didn’t grade higher.

 

These coins did not circulate, but they are heavy, made of gold and very soft. They would be very prone to damage outside of their slabs. Both are smoother than most MS-65 graded St. Gaudens and Liberty $20 gold coins I’ve seen. Are the standards tougher for these pieces? Let’s discuss it.

 

[MarkFeld]

Bill, (edited for spelling) they both look great. (thumbs u

 

Most that I see display obvious contact/rub on the cheek and/or the cap and/or the owl's upper wing. if the images are accurate, I think you you did about as well as possible.

[rrantique]

Bill, the both look great. (thumbs u

 

Most that I see display obvious contact/rub on the cheek and/or the cap and/or the owl's upper wing. if the images are accurate, I think you you did about as well as possible.

 

Spectacular coins Bill. Congrats!!

[BillJones]

Bill, the both look great. (thumbs u

 

Most that I see display obvious contact/rub on the cheek and/or the cap and/or the owl's upper wing. if the images are accurate, I think you you did about as well as possible.

 

The images are not accurate. My camera can "see" or exagerate things that are not or virtually not there. This is no break on the frost on the round Pan-Pac.

[leeg]

Both are fantastic examples!!

 

Congrat's!!!!!!!!

[James_OldeTowne]

I have had the extreme pleasure of cataloging a couple of the octagonal pieces, by far my favorite commemorative, PERIOD. These massive coins seem to suffer from edge blemishes more than anything else.

 

Interestingly enough, one round piece I cataloged in a PCGS problem-free holder had previously been in in an NCS holder (damaged) a couple of years prior. Even with such caveats, they are extremely desirable pieces, in my opinion.

 

I am terribly envious, Bill. Of all the coins you have ever showed us, including your early classics, these two gold coins are my favorites. THANKS for sharing.

[C.I.]

That octagon. (thumbs u

 

 

[mommam17]

Great looking coins. The octagonal is my dream coin. Not sure about grading, but it sounds like the PCGS is a B coin and the NGC an A coin.

[fishfinder]

Oh Bill,

 

They are terrific. I think they are my favorites.

 

Fish

[mkman123]

my dream coin! Your lucky!

[BillJones]

I am terribly envious, Bill. Of all the coins you have ever showed us, including your early classics, these two gold coins are my favorites. THANKS for sharing.  

 

Interesting ... I showed round piece to a well-known, old time collector who specializes in the classics. He thought I was the biggest fool at the FUN show for buying these pieces. He thought I should have spent the money on the "the real thing" - a Humbert, U.S. Assey Office $50 gold slug.

 

He said, "I'll bet I could buy 100 Pan-Pac $50 in two months." I don't think he's been shopping in the coin market recently. Like a lot of other good stuff, they were around a couple years ago, although coming with a 100 of them would be challenge, money aside. Today the supply seems to be rather thin.

 

And of course there is always the worries about repaired pieces. I saw a few a couple years ago when I was shopping for a customer's want list. And no they had a clean bill of health so far as the slab grade was concerned.

[johnny9434]

way cool, nice coin

[Coindude]

my dream coin! Your lucky!

I wouldn't call Bill lucky. I'd call him a persistent and dedicated collector with incredible taste.

 

Well done Bill, I love these coins. Personally, from the first moment I ever saw a picture of one, I fell in love. I especially love the Octagonal even though I know the Round is rarer and more expensive.

 

Your NGC Round is absolutely incredible, and I have to agree with you that the grading looks tight. Personally it wouldn't bother me to see that one in a 65.

 

And, for those of you who have never seen one, even if you can't afford one which I can't either..... You should stop by one of the higher end tables just to see one up close and in person. They are absolutely amazing... speaking of which, Bill... the way the fields are on the Round... that is exquisite!!

[Bruceswar]

2 these coins are just killer! Thanks for sharing!

[physics-fan3.14]

Hmmm... the house I'm looking at buying costs about as much as those two coins combined. That's interesting.

 

Fantastic gold, Bill.

[fishfinder]

Interesting article By DB on these commems.

 

 

 

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article3133.chtml

[Oldtrader3]

They are two really nice commemorative coins. I do not believe that in all my years of owning and collecting gold coins, that I have ever even held one of these Pan Pac $50's in my hand.

[BillJones]

I'm a bit surprised that you have never held one of these coins, oldtrader3, given you long experience. But come to think of it, I've never held one either, at least outside of a holder.

 

Back in the late 1970s Cathy Bullowa showed me a Pan-Pac set in the copper frame. Of course the two $50 gold pieces were in it, but the frame was not open. She was selling it in an auction, and I believe the set brought $27,000. It may as well have been $27 million given my finances back then.

 

I got reacquainted with one of these coins “in the gold” about six years ago when local dealer had a slabbed one at a local show. He let me take to my table to fondle it for a while, no doubt hoping that I would buy it. I could not get over how heavy it felt in my hand. There is one thing about these coins, the weight alone has them screaming value.

 

Q. David Bowers claims that non-collectors own a number of these pieces as “trophy coins.” If that’s true it’s too bad because they do hold an important place in 20th century numismatics. They are the only “real” $50 gold pieces (aside from the modern 1 ounce $50 bullion gold coin) that the mint made available to the general public. They are also the heaviest coins The United States Mint ever issues. As such they have a unique spot in numismatic history.

 

[PerryHall]

Q. David Bowers claims that non-collectors own a number of these pieces as “trophy coins.” If that’s true it’s too bad because they do hold an important place in 20th century numismatics. They are the only “real” $50 gold pieces (aside from the modern 1 ounce $50 bullion gold coin) that the mint made available to the general public. They are also the heaviest coins The United States Mint ever issues. As such they have a unique spot in numismatic history.

 

Also, the octagon Pan Pac $50 is the only U.S. Mint made coin of that shape.

[Oldtrader3]

Bill, I have of course, been close to these Pan Pac gold coins in slabs in a case or on display at shows several times. I have owned many gold coins of various denominations in the past 50 years and collected MS Saints for awhile in the the past decade. I finished about 60% of the Saint registry set. However, I have held a couple of high relief Saints but that is as high as I have gone on the food chain of gold collecting. Maybe some day!

[RockMyAmadeus]

These are amazing, Bill. Any coin with original mintages in the hundreds just blows me away. And the largest gold coins ever struck....