Complaints /\

[Guest]

I'm fairly new to this board and I really don't want to make wave's , but am I the only one that Is sick of hearing complaint's here and over there about grade's or Not getting a star on the holder ?

When This people don't get the grade they want they respond like It's a personal attack on their knowledge of coin's.

There are reason's why that you can get a coin straight from the mint , still in the US Mint Holder , Submit it and It still come back as a MS67.

These grader's are not just guessing and saying , hmm could be a 66 or 68.

There are also reason's why there are 9 other grade's between 60 and 70.

Resubmit it , become a pro grader and help the whole coin world , send it some where else or keep it like it is , but if you want to complain at least give us the reason why it should be graded higher , maybe a picture or two , and best of all the reason's why it might have got the grade it did instead of the one you thought it should .

It would at least make for better reading then : My coin is not what I wanted , what's going on here , I believe there was a coin grader on the grassy knoll.

On the flip side , this is the USA , Post what you want

Just as I have now

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Oh , I lost a star with this post .

That just proves what kind of people that complain about there grades are .

Whiners and people that cannot take criticism , even the slightest amount .

 

Let me add on to this , You freely criticize people that grade your coin's and have been trained and spent year's doing their profession , but when it is turned around you seem to need some sort of vindication.

Without them your profit's would be far from what they are using graded coin's as opposed to raw.

Take all the star's from my name if you will , but the truth will be unchanged

 

[EVillageProwler]

I just gave you a 5-star rating. Maybe it'll help a little...

 

EVP

 

[Guest]

Thanks EVillageProwler , I could alway's tell by your post you were a stand up guy .

Thank's again .

[GDJMSP]

Rak - Any time you deal with the public there are going to be complaints. It is the nature of people to complain.

 

Like you apparently do - I think many complaints are unfounded. But there are always the few complaints that are justified. And because these justified complaints do exist - you have to put up with the rest of them that are not.

 

But by making complaints - and discussing them in an open forum - people can learn. And as knowledge on a given subject increases - complaints tend to decrease. Not stop altogether mind you - but they generally do decrease.

 

Complaints also serve a valuable purpose in that they allow a business to be attuned to the needs and wants of its customers. They help a business grow & mature and become a better business. And only by doing this will they ultimately become successful & long lived.

 

As for your rating dropping - well - does it really matter ?

 

And besides that - complaints can be fun And don't they give people like you and me something to complain about as well ? I mean after all - I just hate being left out

[jtryka]

Personally I agree with you Rak, and I posted a somewhat related thread a week or so ago on our own personal biases on grades vs. the pros. As for the stars, I really don't care a whit about them, not even on NGC holders!

[gmarguli]

First off, sometimes you have to complain over and over and over and over and over again before people hear you.

 

For PCGS: Want to guess how many times I had to complain about getting my coins fingerprinted? When I went to show it to someone there, their response was "We don't want to see that. We know all about it." Lovely. They could have just said FU and I would have been happier. Then David Hall says he knows nothing about this? Who is reporting to who there? Is there a chain of command?

 

Look at all the complaints about crossovers. A 20% crossover rate. Screams of complaints for a year and now the crossover rate seems to be exploding.

 

No PR70s, screams for a year or two and finally they hear them. The PR70s are flowing again.

 

I've said this many times, yet no one at the grading services have a good answer. Around 80% of all my coins ever bodybagged get slabbed the very next time. I do nothing to them in between submissions. Apparently cleanings go away, PVC disappears, artificial toning becomes real, counterfeit coins turn genuine, etc. Odd isn't it?

 

In my safe I have a box of Ike dollars that were submitted over the last few years. I'll cover the grade and I dare any of those "expert" graders to tell the grade they were graded. I bet they couldn't hit 50%. I cracked a couple and they upgraded 1-2 points! Want to compare Lincolns that they graded 6 months ago to those graded a week ago. If you can figure out the grading system where MS64s are better than MS66s, then let me know. Want to see a Boone commem that went MS64 -> MS65 -> MS66? Want to see a coin I cut out of a mint set that they graded AU58? This has happened several times to me at more than one service.

 

Sometimes you just get screwed once too often and screaming publicly is the only solution.

 

As for NGC, they're making an effort. I've found their grading to be CONSISTENT, which is all anyone is asking for. No one is asking for loose grades. All we are asking for is that if we submit a coin and it grades MS64, then the next time we submit an identical coin, it also grades MS64 - not AU58, not MS62, not bodybagged for something or other, but MS64. Until then, there will be complaints.

 

Now, someone tell me how I can knock him down a star.

[Guest]

Thanks jtryka , I know what you mean about the * , It's all in the eye of the beholder anyway . I don't think most people will buy a ugly coin , even if it does have a star on it.

 

GDJMSP , I have to disagree with you a little , I do believe there are mistake's made in grading , but for the most part I would say they are accurate.

I also believe that a dozen complaint's on this board will not change the grade of a single coin , only resubmission will change it and of course that is not a certainty.

There is a big difference between saying I'm posting in discontent to let you know that I want my coin's reexamined and I will be sending them in , then posting to say that you are wrong and how could you give my 38 year old coin only a MS68 .

 

As far as me complaining about the complainer's , I come here to enjoy this forum and to learn more about coin's.

If the guy knew anything at all about coin's he would know that brand new proof coin's some cannot get a MS68 , Let alone a 40 year old proof coin .

I would say he got a great grade , there are not huge amount's of MS68/69's for that year to begin with .

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

 

[BankNote1]

Rak; This is a very good thread! I gave it 5 stars. I think there are a lot of people trying to get something for nothing! One holder being worth more than another, if I get a star or whatever! When did we stop collecting coins and start collecting plastic holders????

[Guest]

gmarguli , Like I said in my last post , there's a difference between using this forum as a tool and just being A**hole .

There's also a difference between getting coins fingerprinted and expecting/demanding a 40 Year old coin to receive a MS69/70 designation.

There are reason's there are no 50 year old coin's are graded MS70 ?

No coin's that I know of anyway.

[Guest]

BankNote1 , I Totally , 100% agree with you !

I could not have put it in any better word's , Are we collecting holder's with number's or coin's !

Well Said !

[IrishMike]

I am soooooooooooo sick of folks on both boards complaining about grading service mistakes or grades, that haven't taken the step to contact the service first. If after that you get no satisfaction, then air your complaints.

 

I don't know what business the rest of you are in, but I am a banker and if someone has a legitimate complaint about the way I serviced their account I expect to be the first one to hear about it, not my boss and certainly not in an open forum. It seems that the ones who complain the most about service are those who themselves don't practice the common courtesy of contacting the person or company they have a problem with. Hardly ever in life have I had a mistake not corrected and handled in a courteous manner.

 

Edited to add most people don't know that a 5 is the best and 1 the worst rating.

[Guest]

IrishMike , Exactly !

Bogus complaint's with no further effort's then posting negatively at the forum .

It's good to see I'm not the only one who this has bothered .

[C.Urch]

Stop bothering me

[GDJMSP]

Rak - I have to agree with you - a lot.

 

I agree completely - 100% - that in the vast majority of cases a complaint by a submitter about a grade being too high or too low is unjustified. To me that is just a difference of opinion between the grader and the submitter - with the opinion of the grader being far more likely to be correct.

 

As for resubmissions - except for the rare cases where an honest mistake has been made - a coin getting an upgrade, a downgrade or even a bodybag should not happen. If a coin was graded correctly the first time around - then the grade after a resubmission should remain the same as the original grade. When it does not - this indicates a problem in the grading system to me. And this is the problem that I would like to see rectified.

[IrishMike]

I will say this after perusing the Bower's Rarities Sale catalogue, there are ways to chide graders without acting like an angry teenager. This is taken from page 91 in describing Lot 344, an 1890 Half, the cataloger states, "Light golden toning over mirror surfaces. Fairly extensive contact marks are visible to our eye, but are mostly hidden by the toning, thus the PCGS graders had no problem designating the number assigned. We might suggest that the connoissuer may wish to keep looking, but that the vast majority of buyers, who are mainly concerned with numbers, will find this coin to be satisfactory".

 

Now that is a funny way to question a grade.

[EVillageProwler]

That is vintage QDB language. He's been slamming those who focus too much on the slab for the past two years. I've seen his witty comments in his catalogs before.

 

For a person of his seniority, he can be pretty ``fresh'' at times!

 

 

EVP

 

[Guest]

Sorry, but I wholeheartedly agree with Greg. The services in fact do mess up on the grading and to say it's just the submitter who is wrong is utter nonsense. The variance in grades on the bourse floors clearly indicate a 2 point spread variance on many of the tougher to grade coins. The bourse is littered with the bottom point coins. Just finding solidly graded coins (the accurate middle grade) is hard enough these days. And trying to find the 1 point undergrades (like Benson 2 had throughout the sale) is no free lunch either.

 

roadrunner

[Guest]

I'm not talking about mistake's being made , of course there are going to be mistake's made at time's .

I think we all can agree with that , but there are good way's to handle thing's then there are bad way's to do it .

Which of the following two post would you prefer to have directed at you :

 

1. I sent In 4 1964 half's to you and two of these 38 year old coin's came back only as MS68

What's going on ? Why am I always getting the shaft here ?

Is It just my coin's getting such a low grade , do you even look at the coin's before slabbing them

I know how to grade and they were definitely MS69 !!!

 

Or

 

2. I have Received my coin's and I do not agree with the grade assigned to them.

Could you please make a note of this post and also that I will be sending back in the coin's for further evaluation to make sure there were no mistake's made with the grading of these coin's .

Any and all help you could extend would be greatly appreciated in this matter.

Thank you.

Name and all Vital Information.

 

I would prefer the latter , I think most would .

 

 

[coinman1794]

That's right on Greg! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[IrishMike]

roadrunner of course what you say is true. But person_without_enough_empathying about it in an open forum without having tried to get satisfaction from PCGS or NGC first is not the way I would handle the situation. Greg I know you take your complaints to the companies but do you believe all the posts in the coin forum there about undergrades are all posted by folks who really can grade as well as the PCGS graders? Maybe you can but the vast majority can't. Secondly do you think any one from PCGS reads the coin forums. I doubt it, so what is the point in harping about grades there?

 

The other day coinguy made a post about two walkers, both of which were graded 67, one NGC and the other PCGS. The number one nonbuyer of slabs,who is also the leading harpie of learn how to grade, graded them both 63's. Who is kidding who here. The fact is and I believe this that most of the people harping over there about their grades wouldn't know a AU from a MS.

[Coinosaurus]

I appreciate QDB being so forthright in his description, but perhaps if I had consigned the coin in question I would not feel so magnanimous. Perhaps this one was from the company stock?

[IrishMike]

Well he might have enlightened the cosignor of the coin and by describing it the way he did, might lesson some disatisfaction from the new buyer, unless as he rightly pointed out that numbers buyers won't care, not that any of them exist mind you.

[Tradedollarnut]

Dave also commented in the section on the PCGS MS64 FH 1916 SLQ:

 

Marked as "Full Head" which it nearly is. (his italics, not mine).

 

He has a bit of an independent streak in him and loves to show that he's not beholden to CU or any of the grading services. He is by far my favorite personality in coins!

[braddick]

BIG difference between complaining about fingerprints on coins and the crossover rate than it is about "my coin only gotta 65 when it should have graded 66" threads.

 

Enough of the whining.

 

Greg's right about selective criticizing. It's just the general bickering about the Services and venting that doesn't do any good.

 

If you don't like your grades- stop submitting. I love the guys who complaint about their grades and then continue to submit and submit.

[IrishMike]

Yeah TDN I saw that write up, quite funny. I asked Mark on the other forum whether it is full head or not.

[Guest]

Gregg ,

You can take away my star's if you feel it help's you sleep , but If I remember right ( Which I do ) Your the same guy who told a new guy at the pcgs forum who needed help on buying a coin from ebay that the coin had been cleaned

How could you tell him that btw ?

It was not a good picture and there were no visible sign's of cleaning .

I'm assuming your using the same judgement on this thread as you did on that one .

 

[Tradedollarnut]

Hmmmm....ebay + raw = cleaned unless proven otherwise!

 

A very good rule to live (and save money) by.

 

 

[gmarguli]

1. I sent In 4 1964 half's to you and two of these 38 year old coin's came back only as MS68

What's going on ? Why am I always getting the shaft here ?

Is It just my coin's getting such a low grade , do you even look at the coin's before slabbing them

I know how to grade and they were definitely MS69 !!!

 

Or

 

2. I have Received my coin's and I do not agree with the grade assigned to them.

Could you please make a note of this post and also that I will be sending back in the coin's for further evaluation to make sure there were no mistake's made with the grading of these coin's .

Any and all help you could extend would be greatly appreciated in this matter.

Thank you.

Name and all Vital Information.

 

 

PCGS response to #1: You may submit you coin for regrade. The fees associated with the regrade service are the same as the grading fees.

 

PCGS response to #2: You may submit you coin for regrade. The fees associated with the regrade service are the same as the grading fees.

 

Which PCGS response was more helpful to you?

 

BTW, if you try #2 they will send you a bill if you don't include payment (see: PCGS response to #2 for more information). That is unless you got approval to resubmit the coins beforehand (which is rather difficult).

[gmarguli]

Greg I know you take your complaints to the companies but do you believe all the posts in the coin forum there about undergrades are all posted by folks who really can grade as well as the PCGS graders? Maybe you can but the vast majority can't. Secondly do you think any one from PCGS reads the coin forums. I doubt it, so what is the point in harping about grades there?

 

Not at all. I've seen in person many coins that forum members had graded and complained about grades. PCGS was without a doubt dead-on for the grade. The submitter didn't have a clue. I'd guess that in MANY of the cases this is true.

 

However, I've also seen coins that clearly warranted a different grade. The problem is that they don't seem to care if they make a mistake. They said MS64 to an MS66, what the hell, re$ubmit it and maybe we'll get it right the next time. Oh sorry, no refund for the re$ubmi$$ion fee even though we upgraded your coin a few points.