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can any one grade this silver dollar?

38 posts in this topic

I believe the use of an 1804 Class III dollar complicates matters far more than might have otherwise been the case had another coin been taken for this thread. These pieces were produced from the 1830s or later and the Class III coins, if I recall correctly, used obverse/reverse pairings that might not have been used for the Class I or Class II coins. Also, I do not know the striking characteristics of these pieces. I do remember that these were intentionally worn or produced intentionally with characteristics of coins that had seen circulation. Therefore, it is tough to make in depth statements about this issue without seeing other Class III issues and without knowing how each was issued.

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Guys I gotta say, I don't like the PR58 on this one either, and I doubt seeing it in hand would change my mind. And I don't have Mark's experience in grading, but that reverse is no 58 IMHO and no amount of luster will make it so. I like PR45 for this one, and that is no expert opinion to be sure.

 

Mark is there a reason why the reverse is looking so worn on these 1804's? Is this possibly a strike issue instead of wear? That could reconcile the issues here maybe?

 

Mark I remain confused. I showed the boards a lovely MS64 large cent a month ago and got hammered on technical grade and alleged AT toning (which I still deem unlikely until I have quantifiable evidence I am working on), yet you now say eye appeal is key on grading for the present example in this thread. IMHO, and apparently for PCGS, eye appeal was very important in crediting that large cent with a 64, and I would say 65 based on eye appeal and surfaces in hand, and you say it was important for this 1804, yet, you still said I had a problem coin based on technical grade because of the obverse having poorly mixed alloy which I deemed to enhance the large cent and make it unique in some ways. I found nothing in the PCGS grading guide book that notes that coarse wood grain detracts from the grade. One does find however by any grading guide that a reverse such as the one on this 1804 clearly reduces the grade. So which is it that makes the grade, technical, or eye appeal, or a combination? It would be useful to get your thought on this and thanks.

 

It appears that you are confused about and misunderstood what I have said.

 

For the record, I have posted that when I last saw this coin, years ago, I thought it deserved a 50 or a 53 (as opposed to a 45 or a 58).

 

I didn't say eye appeal is key for this coin. In fact, I said: ".. generally, eye-appeal is a much more significant factor for coins graded 60 and higher than it is for those graded less than 60. And if you think you can determine the amount of luster on that coin based on those images, you should rest a lot more than your case." My point is that eye-appeal isn't nearly as likely to bump up the grade of a circulated coin as it is an uncirculated or non-impaired Proof.

 

And I didn't criticize your coin on its technical basis, but rather, what to me and some others, is the negative eye-appeal of the wood-grain effect.

 

Lastly, from what I remember, the coin in this thread did not look as dark, in hand, and part of what appears to be wear could be softness in strike.

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If you have complaints about the TPG then take it to the appropriate place, not here..

 

 

 

Correctomundo! You should have taken your complaints to PCGS.

 

Chris

 

He did.

 

He was banned from submitting to them any further.

 

Remember? *snickers*

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I believe I have made my point here and I shall not reply to any off topic undocumented slander posted by the disruptive oral extreme minority gang ....

 

 

 

 

So you're saying our slander should be documented?

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Thanks for the clarifications Mark.

 

Wood grain is common on many coppers, I guess eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder because I don't see wood grain as negative eye appeal in most cases and in that large cent in particular. So the softness in strike on the reverse then is where one could go wrong with grading the 1804 to a lower grade. That makes sense because one would have to ask why the obverse does not show the same amount of wear as the reverse, nevertheless good to have that confirmed by you on that. Grading is complex to be sure.......

 

Luster is always tricky from pictures of many coins. Hard to grade if one can't determine the luster that is for sure.

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