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silver investing

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I'm thinking on getting into investing in silver. I've been more looking at silver bars than coins. I know obviously there are alot of variables in value of one coin to another but what about the bars?

 

Are there differences between different mints or if they are nice and shiney or older(worn). I have some old 5 ounce bars from my grandfather that are all beatup, does that make them worth less?

 

I was looking on some different coin websites and I see you can buy bars from certain mints or you can get just random(their choice), does it matter. Does anyone have a website or anything they recommend?

 

Is there any other info I might find useful that I'm missing about buying silver?

 

Thanks in advance for any info!!!!

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You can buy the SLV ETF which trades on all exchanges and is highly liquidable.

 

I like owning silver eagle bullion coins best

 

Good Luck

 

 

(I sold all my SLV shares at 30.00)

 

 

OP

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I was thinking on just buying shares, but I kinda like actually holding the bars in my hand. :)

 

Might be kind of a dumb question but is there a difference between bullion and a regular coin?

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ahhh, ok that makes more sence now. I have some silver coins from my grandfather that have the coa that says 90% and the bars I got are .999.

 

so, anything that states its .999 is bullion?

 

are the values of a 1 ounce bullion coin(as long as its common) pretty much the same as a bar would be?

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Lately .999 bullion coins (Like ASEs or Maples) have been trading at a 5-10% premium to melt. Bars have been somewhat lower, and 90% silver is trading at around melt.

 

.999 silver is a standard for bullion. .900 silver is acceptable as well. .925 and .400 silver seem to be much less liquid.

 

APMEX.com is one of my favorite websites to buy my metals from. Beware their high shipping costs, though. ProvidentMetals.com has slightly lower prices and lower shipping than APMEX, but their selection is smaller, especially lately.

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Melt refers to the metallic value. Spot refers to the price per troy ounce.

 

When someone says a silver dollar melts at $23, they are taking the spot price of silver and multiplying by the pieces actual silver weight.

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The spot price is the price for a pure ounce of the metal, so spot price for silver might be $29.50, which is the price for one pure ounce. The melt value is the value of a coin/bar/medal if it were melted down to get the pure metal. So for $1 face value in silver quarters (or halves or dimes or any combination of the three), the coins only contain 0.7234 ounces of pure silver, so they would "melt" at 0.7234 x $29.50 or $21.34. A silver dollar contains more silver than a dollar's worth of smaller coins, so a silver dollar has a slightly higher melt value (it contains 0.7735 oz of pure silver x $29.50 = $22.82 melt value).

 

You can use websites like coinflation to find the silver content and values of these coins as well: http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html

 

Hope this helps.

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That helps greatly, I think I understand now. So, the spot price is determined by the stock market, right?

 

That website is great, thank you!!!

 

Now, as far as silver bars. Is there a difference where or who minted them or are they all pretty much valued the same since they are all .999? I see a few different prices on some even on the same website. Are some mints more sought after or more valuble or something?

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The spot price is determined by the commodities market, but its the same basic idea. It can be seen at kitco.com. Historic charts are there as well.

 

As far as bars are concerned, Engelhard and Johnson Matthey seem to be the most popular. These bars generally bring a higher premium over their melt value than other bars. However most bars are acceptable, though I tend to steer away from art bars and other non-standard bullion bars. I personally like the bars made by Sunshine Minting, who incidentally also produce the silver blanks used by the Mint to make ASEs. APMEX and Silvertowne bars are also popular.

 

 

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As far as bars are concerned, Engelhard and Johnson Matthey seem to be the most popular. These bars generally bring a higher premium over their melt value than other bars. However most bars are acceptable, though I tend to steer away from art bars and other non-standard bullion bars. I personally like the bars made by Sunshine Minting, who incidentally also produce the silver blanks used by the Mint to make ASEs. APMEX and Silvertowne bars are also popular.

 

 

now, is this just because they are "brand name" bars from a more popular mint or are there other factors with them bringing a higher premium for thier bars?

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With regards to Engelhard and JM, some people believe that they are more reputable. I don't know how much merit there is to this, I don't know of any problems with ANY brand name bars. Bars from these two companies are also more rare than others. I'm not certain they are still producing bullion bars, and I know some people collect them.

 

I tend to stick to brand name, be it Engelhard, JM, Sunshine, Silvertowne, APMEX, or others I've forgotten just to increase liquidity when its time to sell.

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There is also the idea that government minted bullion coins sell for a premium since their content and purity are guaranteed by the governement that minted them. So American Eagles, Canadian Maples, Mexican Libertads, Austrian Philharmonics, all trade at a premium. You can also get a break in quantity, so 1-ounce bars are more expensive than 10-ounce, which are more than 100-ounce, etc. Here are some examples from Apmex:

 

American silver eagle: $2.59 over spot

Maple leaf: $2.49 over spot

Philharmonics: $2.59 over spot

Libertads: $2.79 over spot

Apmex Bars (1-oz through 10-oz): $1.19 over spot

Apmex 100-ounce bars: $0.99 over spot

Bulk industrial bars (around 1000 ounces): $0.29 to $0.39 over spot

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There is also the idea that government minted bullion coins sell for a premium since their content and purity are guaranteed by the governement that minted them.

 

so, has anyone actually heard of silver bars(or other metals for that matter) made by non-brandname mints(or whatever) being plated or not really .999 or something?

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And this is common knowledge as well so if you already know then don't take it as an insult to your intelligence. I just learned it in the last couple years myself so it's fresh.

 

A troy ounce is heavier than an avoirdupois ounce (regular everyday weight measurement)

 

(1 avoirdupois ounce = 28.35 grams, a troy ounce = 31.1 grams)

 

 

 

A troy pound is lighter than a avoirdupois pound because it contains fewer ounces.

 

(Troy pound contains 12 troy ounces, avoirdupois pound contains 16 avoirdupois ounces. Even though the troy ounces are heavier, that difference is not enough make troy pounds heavier.)

 

 

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You've been getting good information. Precious metals are sold based upon troy ounces instead of avoirdupois ounces. A troy ounce is about 31.1 grams and this is approximiately 10 heavier than an avoirdupois ounce. Bullion coinage is generally 0.999 fine while coin silver is generally 0.900 fine in the US and 0.925 is more common in Europe (England moreso). The 0.925 fine silver is also known as sterling. APMEX and coinflation are great sites to use for spot price and the bullion value of coinage.

 

Many folks do not care for off-brand silver bars, but this is not universal. I prefer silver coinage at 0.900 fine as well as 0.999 fine bullion and I dislike bars. If you purchase large bars of 100 ounces or more then they might need to be assayed prior to sale. Some will claim you are too late to buy precious metals, but I am still building my stack and have been doing so for many years.

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I did not know that about the weight, thanks guys, I do now. :) is kinda weird though about the ounces weighing more but pounds weighing less, but whatever.

 

I knew about the bullion being .999 and the coins being .900(from here), but I didnt know about the .925 being sterling. so, thats what jewelry would be then? you guys have been a treasure trove of info, literally ;)

 

I'm getting the impression that the majority on here prefer the .999 rounds, is that mainly because of them being the highest % over melt? or just personal preference?

 

now with the dislike on bars, especially off brands there seems to be, liked I asked before, is there a reason for that? I mean has there been instances of fake, counterfeit or like plated bars on the market or something. I just think its kinda cool having bars of gold or silver in my hand and I'm not understanding why they wouldnt be more popular. it seems like alot of sites, mints, ect.. sell them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Some will claim you are too late to buy precious metals, but I am still building my stack and have been doing so for many years.

 

now this is the first I've heard or read this statement. I would guess even with my limited knowledge that this would not be true. is there any truth to this? actually what I've been reading is kind of the opposite of that statement.

 

I will be adding to my stack as well, even if I had been hearing this. I just find it hard to believe.

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My preference is actually for 0.900 fine coinage and my favorite way to buy silver is to obtain uncirculated rolls of Franklin or JFK halves at or near their melt value. This cannot always be done, especially with Franklin halves, but it is nice when you find them for sale. The other way I like to own silver is in the bullion 0.999 fine form and for these I prefer American Silver Eagles (ASEs) because of their liquidity and Mexican Libertads of the older style that are fatter and smaller in diameter because I like the design. I dislike bullion rounds that are not issued by governments, though others like them just as much as coinage or even more while silver bars seem somehow foreign to me because they are not in the familiar coin format.

 

The price of gold and silver has gone up significantly for the last 5-10 years and in that time quite a few folks who purchased the metals before the rise have become hesitant to heavily buy at new levels. It might be a pschological barrier more than anything else.

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The price of gold and silver has gone up significantly for the last 5-10 years and in that time quite a few folks who purchased the metals before the rise have become hesitant to heavily buy at new levels. It might be a pschological barrier more than anything else.

 

I mean just like with everything else with inflation prices/values rise and so will metals, right? People 50 years ago would never imagine the prices of things now days. (shrug)

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The price of gold and silver has gone up significantly for the last 5-10 years and in that time quite a few folks who purchased the metals before the rise have become hesitant to heavily buy at new levels. It might be a pschological barrier more than anything else.

 

I mean just like with everything else with inflation prices/values rise and so will metals, right? People 50 years ago would never imagine the prices of things now days. (shrug)

 

Don't rely on this. While I applaud your effort to learn a lot about the spot market, your lack of substantial knowledge in the subject matter may increase your risk significantly where silver is already at near all time highs. This means that there is less room for error, and a mistake could cost you dearly. I recommend reading up on the subject matter by buying a few books before committing any funds to purchasing precious metals. Just my opinion though..,

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actually it was more of a question than a statement. believe me I'm doing plenty of reading and I'm getting some terrific info here(thanks much). Just alot of stuff I've been reading is in favor of the value going way up on silver. I read about China driving up the price of it and buying the hell out of it right now. any truth to that of is that info trash?

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Commodities are the most volatile asset class. You have to be able to hang on to the wild rides, cause if you can't you will sell in a panick and lose money.

The precious metal commodities have made a fantastic move over the last 2-3 years. When you start hearing commercials promoting gold and silver, and there's lots of enthusiasm with everyone jumping on the wagon, is the best time to get off the ride.

 

If I have 100 ounces of silver at $30.00 I say "I have 3000.00 worth of Silver"

 

If I have 100 ounces of silver at $10.00 that I paid 30.00 I say "I have 100 ounces of silver" :o

 

 

OP

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Well, we could debate the investment merits of metals from now until doomsday, and once a person has made up their mind they act accordingly. I don't view this as a religion so I am not out to convince anyone, I just look at circumstances and act accordingly.

 

Silver and gold are elements, and despite the best efforts of alchemists, that cannot be created at will from lesser items (I would argue the closest we've come is the ability of bullion banks to create bullion from paper on the Comex, but that's another story). The dollar, euro, yen, pound, yuan and every other currency used today are purely faith-based, they are backed by nothing tangible or concrete (yes, I know economist like to tout the total BS that the dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government, and the entire productive asset base of the American economy, but try getting that at the Fed window with one of the bills in your pocket). In addition, the Fed and other central banks are printing like there is no tomorrow, so when you have an economy perhaps growing at 3% or even 10% in real terms, if the number of currency units is increasing at a faster rate, the value of those units will decrease by definition. If you live long enough, you start to really see the impact of this in your own life. When I was a kid growing up in the 1970s, a comic book cost a quarter, a pint bottle of Coke was 15 cents and a candy bar was 20 cents. Today a pint of Coke is 99 cents, a candy bar costs 85 cents, and I don't even know what a comic book costs! I can say this, the Coca Cola Company has become a lot more efficient over the last 35 years, so the it's not because of lack of effort that a bottle of Coke has gone up 560%, it's entirely due to the decline in the value of the dollar (true story, you can get 2 Cokes for a silver dime, just like you could buy two nickel Cokes back in the 1960s for the same silver dime when the Mint still issued silver dimes for circulation).

 

So when it comes to saving for the long-term, I prefer to save in a form that cannot easily be conjured from nothing! That means metals. I have been buying rolls of eagles every year since they came out in 1986. Is it possible I'll lose money on the roll I buy this year for $700? Sure, but silver would have to fall a long way for me to lose on the ones I bought at $100 per roll back in the 1990s, but that's the point of long-term savings vs. short-term speculation!

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some great points JT. thats kind of how I'm feeling. sure you can by silver shares on the comodities market, but when it comes down to it, I personally would rather have a tangable item in my hands. I mean, god forbid the market crashes or something along those lines happens. true there would be alot more to worry about, but all that money in the market isnt anything but numbers on a pc screen, right? seems like having a silver/gold bar/coin in your hand would be alot more secure.

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