RIP, Cameron Kiefer

[Oldtrader3]

I remember now, I have been quite ill for couple-three years now. As result, I do not come here nearly as much and ATS even less (especially since I am apparently banned for life there going on 7 years) for telling the truth about CU's business practices.

 

I normally do not collect Sample Slabs but have a handfull. Now I remember that I traded for them with Cameron Kiefer at a Long Beach show 8-9 years ago when he was still in school, before he became a grader. RIP Buddy!

[JamminJ]

Without a doubt this is the saddest thread I've seen in the coin forums - on so many levels.

 

I remember him a cheerful guy, charming in his awkwardness. Very sharp with the coins and pleasure to have him visit my wife and myself on a few occasions. I hoped the ICG grader job and the move to Colorado would open new doors for him. In a way, doors did open but not all of the right kind.

 

Farewell, Cameron, rest in peace.

I hope your wife and two children have the internal strength to see them through.

 

[Barry-migration]

Well this is a real blast from the past!!

 

IT HAS BEEN A WHILE SINCE I SURFACED.

 

How you doing Adrian?

 

I AM DOING VERY WELL.

 

Anyhow, yea, I remember all the banter that was going on a year or two ago about you. A lot of it went well beyond what I thought should have gone on.

 

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A SHORTAGE OF insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.....THAT'S WHY PERSONAL INJURY LAW IS SO GOOD TO MOST PI LAWYERS.......

 

At any rate, I have to agree that people are a lot more brave behind a keyboard.

 

I AM NOT INCLINED TOWARDS VIOLENCE HOWEVER MANY THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID ABOUT ME IN CYBERSPACE WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A CHALLENGE TO CONSENSUAL FISTICUFFS.

 

I have seen people go way too far over there, and it seems, if you are part of the "in crowd" you can get away with whatever you want even if it's against the established rules.

 

MANY OF THE BIGMOUTHS ARE JUST COWARDS WITH NO SPINE AND NO LIFE AND NO ASSETS WORTH GOING AFTER. GUYS WHO HAVE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF POST ATS AND AT POPFORUM.NET ARE TOO CLEARLY TOTAL LOSERS WITHOUT A LIFE.

 

Anyhow, good to see you around here Adrian, hope you don't make yourself scarce. Always enjoyed your posts, always gave me insight and enjoyment.

 

THANKS. I'LL MAKE SURE THAT CHECK DOESN'T BOUNCE. ;0)

 

PS.... what the heck were you doing in jail!! (feel free not to answer!!)

 

RECENTLY I WAS IN JAIL FROM AUGUST 25TH UNTIL DECEMBER 4TH, MOSTLY DUE TO MY STUPIDITY SURROUNDING MY NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH IN THE AREA OF MY ABILITY TO DRINK ALCOHOL LIKE A NORMAL PERSON (I CAN'T) AND IN MY RECENT BAD DECISION TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA BUSINESS IN COLORADO, BEFORE I HAD MY LICENSE PLATES CHANGED FROM TEXAS TO COLORADO.

 

(AND I AM NOT "ASHAMED" OF ANYTHING I HAVE DONE, THAT'S WHY I HAVE USUALLY BEEN AN OPEN BOOK......I AM NOT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN A THIEF OR A LIAR OR ONE POSSESSED OF BAD MORALS....I MAY MAKE A BAD DECISION FROM TIME TO TIME, HOWEVER, I WOULD RATHER LIVE THE LIFE I HAVE LIVED, A LIFE OF ADVENTURE AND RISK TAKING, THAN LIVE BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN OR IN THE SAME PLACE AND TOWN DOING THE SAME THING FOR MY WHOLE LIFE. AS HELEN KELLER SAID, "LIFE IS EITHER A DARING ADVENTURE OR NOTHING." I AM PROUD TO HAVE HAD THE BALLS TO DO WHAT I HAVE DONE.)

 

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, JAIL IN COSTA RICA WAS A GOOD PRIMER FOR JAIL IN THE US WHICH IS MORE LIKE A VACATION. I READ OVER 10,000 PAGES WHILE IN JAIL MOST RECENTLY.

 

Preserved for posterity

[TheMightyDuke]

I just got PM's from 'Typesetter' (ATS name, now booted, but he contacts me on another forum...I have no idea why), but apparently, and this is unconfirmed but he claims it's true, he really seems to want to stick it to Cam's wife and kids....he claims he has an attorney and will try to get every penny he's owed, even if it means going after any and all memorial funds set up for his family.

 

There was a thread ATS where a local atty is going to help Cams family and attempt to keep any memorial funds out of the picture. But, it sure seems Typesetter is intent on getting the money he CLAIMS he's out, by any means.....even if it means taking money meant for Cam's wife and kids. I can't think of anything more disgusting. If he is, indeed out the $$ he claims (who in their right mind would put their 6 yeart olds college fund out there??), he should take some responsibility by putting his eggs all in one basket. He should man up...if he needs the $$, he has his coins/collection he can liquidate to get some cash, so he doesn't become a homeless youth pastor.

 

Is this Typesetter (original name ATS Marz, I believe...sic?) for real?

[coinman_23885]

I just got PM's from 'Typesetter' (ATS name, now booted, but he contacts me on another forum...I have no idea why), but apparently, and this is unconfirmed but he claims it's true, he really seems to want to stick it to Cam's wife and kids....he claims he has an attorney and will try to get every penny he's owed, even if it means going after any and all memorial funds set up for his family.

 

There was a thread ATS where a local atty is going to help Cams family and attempt to keep any memorial funds out of the picture. But, it sure seems Typesetter is intent on getting the money he CLAIMS he's out, by any means.....even if it means taking money meant for Cam's wife and kids. I can't think of anything more disgusting. If he is, indeed out the $$ he claims (who in their right mind would put their 6 yeart olds college fund out there??), he should take some responsibility by putting his eggs all in one basket. He should man up...if he needs the $$, he has his coins/collection he can liquidate to get some cash, so he doesn't become a homeless youth pastor.

 

Is this Typesetter (original name ATS Marz, I believe...sic?) for real?

 

He would likely be out of luck. Any cause of action should lay directly against the decedent's estate. Memorial funds and life insurance proceeds (if there are any given his suicide) are not part of his estate and should be exempt from the creditor process. Unless there are some details that I'm not being provided (i.e. his family was complicit in his actions, other unlikely things, etc.), I would think that the judge would dismiss his or her suit. It's not likely that he was pouring the allegedly stolen funds in a trust fund in his family's name to escape liability... if that were true he would have enough money to pay off his debts instead of committing suicide.

[Oldtrader3]

This topic goes from bad to worse, what is wrong with some people? The guy is dead and his family is heartbroken! Move on T*rd (Typesetter, ATS Marz, Evil Demon or whoever you are!). Some people are just disgustingly classless!

[TheMightyDuke]

This topic goes from bad to worse, what is wrong with some people? The guy is dead and his family is heartbroken! Move on T*rd (Typesetter, ATS Marz, Evil Demon or whoever you are!). Some people are just disgustingly classless!

 

I fully agree. I'm just letting you all know what I personally know, through contact with him. Why he picked me on that other forum, I have no idea, as I hadn't dealt with Cameron. I wonder how many others he's just spewing off to. He claims to have 'loved Cam'....doesn't seem that way to me, the way he's determined to get his $$.

[gmarguli]

Memorial funds and life insurance proceeds (if there are any given his suicide) are not part of his estate and should be exempt from the creditor process. Unless there are some details that I'm not being provided (i.e. his family was complicit in his actions, other unlikely things, etc.), I would think that the judge would dismiss his or her suit.

 

I have no info on Cameron's situation with life insurance, but many people don't list a beneficiary on their life insurance policies as they figure it will go to their estate and their wife/children will get the money anyway, so there is no need. However, life insurance can be attacked by creditors unless a beneficiary is listed.

[jtryka]

Well in most cases, life insurance will not pay anything for a suicide, so I doubt that is an issue. In any case it's really just a sad and disgusting display. If there was a problem with the business and you lost money, go after the business, but leave the family out of it. That's the decent thing to do.

 

On a different note, did any of you happen to see the write up on Cam this week in Coin World? I thought they did a nice job with a half-page devoted to his remembrance.

[BSilliman-migration]

Did anyone from this board go to Cameron's Funeral?

 

 

[gmarguli]

Well in most cases, life insurance will not pay anything for a suicide, so I doubt that is an issue.

 

Typically it's a 2 year period from date of issuance that suicide is excluded. The reason is that very few people would buy a policy and still consider killing themselves after this long a period. Group policies frequently do not have a suicide provision. He may have had an automatic life insurance benefit under his work.

 

Not that any of this really matters.

[coinman_23885]

Memorial funds and life insurance proceeds (if there are any given his suicide) are not part of his estate and should be exempt from the creditor process. Unless there are some details that I'm not being provided (i.e. his family was complicit in his actions, other unlikely things, etc.), I would think that the judge would dismiss his or her suit.

 

I have no info on Cameron's situation with life insurance, but many people don't list a beneficiary on their life insurance policies as they figure it will go to their estate and their wife/children will get the money anyway, so there is no need. However, life insurance can be attacked by creditors unless a beneficiary is listed.

 

I knew that this was a possibility if there was no beneficiary and it went to his estate, however, I think it is likely that he listed his wife or kids. Failing to leave a beneficiary can lead to a mess in many instances; no wonder there are so many interpleader actions in the courts.

[stinkycheese1]

This is terrible news...I don't post much here but just came by to lurk for a bit...and find out he passed away. I exchanged a few PM's with him through forums. Very knowledgeable guy, I always was amazed at how much he knew in coins.

 

I've struggled with depression my whole life and then some....this is terrible.

 

All I can say I guess is if you see someone with depression who is considering this, seek medical attention immediately. Also, I was quite a pill in the past I remember, but alot of the things people said to me hurt me at the time...even if I did deserve it. Just think before you act and write something...I still remember some comments such as by dog97.

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Stinky...you should have expected Dog97 to be like that, he's a real American biker, rough, tough, mean, but once you get to know him, he's not such a bad guy, knows his coins and has a good sense of humor. He has mellowed out a bit as of late, bur he tells it like it is and doesn't mince words. That's just the way he is and you, me, them, are not going to change that.

[jtryka]

I thought that actor's name was William Katt...

[WoodenJefferson]

I thought that actor's name was William Katt...

 

Indeed it is, big fingers on big hands=typos.

 

Thanks

[stinkycheese1]

There's a difference between someone being "mean" and someone telling me to kill myself. And that's exactly what he did. No doubt I deserved it at the time, i was quite a pill, but no one should be told that. I'm sure he's a nice guy once you get to know him, and this was a long time ago, but I'm just saying, this stuck to me. I still remember it. And this thread reminds me of it. I feel bad for Cameron's family and I know the pain he went through. RIP buddy.

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Kevin, no human being deserves to be told by another human to kill himself. It should not matter how many issues and personal problems you may have. That is just evil and wrong! You are still a human being, someone's child and have family and people who love you, no matter what or who you are. No one else has the right to exert that degree of control over you.

 

I used to criticise some of your lack of judgement or immaturity back then but never thought for a minute that you were not a worthwhile human being. Depression is a terrible disease and I was married to a woman who suffered from depression for 22 years. I had a very difficult marriage to her because she would never seek help but I still would not wish her any harm.

 

Unfortunately, my two children from that marriage have had issues with depression as well. I do not know why they also were stricken by this disease but I still love them and certainly feel for their pain. Depression can make life very hard sometimes.

[James_OldeTowne]

I just learned of a Cameron Kiefer thread on eBay , for anyone interested.

[Oldtrader3]

Not much there on that Ebay thread. The point of the thread degenerated into an argument about the mortal sin aspect of suicide. Some people are seriously lacking the sympathy gene! I guess when your life is only about making money, it is hard for some to act like an empathetic human being!