What do think of "CAC"?

[gmarguli]

No, I did not see the PVC on the coin and neither did PCGS when they slabbed the coin. I think Oreville had 9 coins with PVC that he did not see. Not as easy as you suggest. John Albanese said the coin was AT and he had it in his hand. I'll go with his opinion.

 

The PVC may not have shown when slabbed.It also may not have been PVC, just PVC like toning.

 

The graders also saw the coin in hand and they didn't think AT. You'll go with his opinion over the 3 graders and your original opinion. Interesting...

A CAC opinion is that of John Albanese, as well as two other extremely competent graders.

 

Are you saying that CAC uses 3 graders per coin? Or that CAC has 3 graders to choose from and one grader will see the coin?

 

CAC evaluates far fewer coins and probably spends more time examining them. They also have the advantage of screening coins that have already been evaluated by NGC or PCGS, just as those companies do when they consider crossovers.

 

Maybe or maybe not. CAC evaluates far fewer coins, but has far fewer graders looking at them. They may spend significantly less time looking at each coin, or the same or more time.

[MarkFeld]

James, I sincerely appreciate the endorsement. It's somewhat ironic, though. That's because, through submitting to CAC, I have been made aware of problems I had missed on coins. It was things such as a spot removal, putty, AT, etc.

 

Simply put, I believe that John Albanese is one of the sharpest graders there is. And he sees and/or catches things that many others don't. I am not the least bit embarrassed to state that he is a much more knowledgeable and better grader than I am.

And Mark, my endorsement of you as a dealer is most sincerely felt as well!

 

I endorse you because I believe in my heart that you are much more than a "grade flipper". Sure, CAC may or may not help you and others figure out a problem coin here and there, but isn't there a whole heck of a lot more to the hobby than quibbling over what's really only a small part of said hobby? And I think you are someone who, like many collectors, enjoys a coin for what it is regardless of how or what it is graded.

 

Sadly, I think "GRADE GRADE GRADE, WHAT IS THE GRADE??" has become much, much too important to people who could enjoy their coins so much more if they could focus on historical aspects of them half as much. John Albanese may or may not be a better grader than you, a better grader than me, and a better grader than the Lord of the Rings, but do I care? Not really. I bet I can attribute Cohen half-cent varieties in circles around him ! And I bet that learning the difference between an original 1841 proof half-cent and the restrikes teaches FAR more enjoyment than worrying about the difference between MS-65.2 and MS-65.4.

 

So in short, we don't see CAC in the same light, but that's OK with me, because we do (I believe) see the ultimate goal of enjoying coins in a very similar light .

 

Edited to add:

buy the coin not the slab/sticker

No one has said otherwise. But sometimes each of us can learn more about the COIN from others.

Here's just what I mean. Slabs and stickers actually teach very little about the COIN, but teach about the GRADE.

James, even though we differ about CAC, it sounds as if we mostly agree on collecting and enjoyment of coins.

 

By the way, when I said "But sometimes each of us can learn more about the COIN from others." I wasn't necessarily speaking about "GRADE". Maybe YOU are the one who is overly concerned about and fixated on grades.

 

[Mark T]

Also, because of CAC, I found some coins in my collection that had PVC contamination and 1 coin was AT. Some people do not like CAC, you can't please everyone, but it's been a big help for me in building my collection.

 

1) Couldn't you have found that PVC by looking at the coin itself?

 

2) Who says the coin was AT? Post a toned coin on the forums and 50% say NT and 50% say AT. Who is correct?

 

Greg if everyone was as smart as you we would not need CAC or grading services because we would all just agree with each other.

Why all the negativity towards CAC ?

 

I believe CAC is not necessary. The services are making the collectors dumber. There is no need to know how to grade a coin as the TPG will do it for you. There is no need to double check this grade as CAC will do it for you. There is no need to decide what coins to collect in your set as the Registry will do it for you. There is no need to think as others will do it for you. Coin collecting used to be the hobby of kings. Now it is the hobby of children who need someone to hold their hand.

 

And I wouldn't interpret my questioning if CAC called the AT correctly as negativity. I would no more assume that CAC got it right, than I would that the TPG got it right. I'd rather look at it myself and make that decision.

 

 

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for all the Pawns . “The hobby of Kings” ?? That is a rather arrogant comment on your part. The best thing that happened to this hobby was certified grading . At the least it gave the hobby some consistency. As the years went on the grading standards changed , TPG’s became more liberal and a lot of bad coins wound up certified. You know this as well as anyone who has been collecting for the past 25 years or more. CAC was formed to filter out the junk .

Back to my original post – with all the site unseen buying, the CAC sticker adds insurance that you will get a properly graded coin that was certified by one of the best in the business. It would be wrong for someone to purchase a coin based solely on a CAC sticker. Personally if I see a coin on line that I like from the photo , knowing it is CAC certified it is usually enough for me to bid. My major purchases are pre screened by Mark Feld. Sometimes I ask Mark to view the CAC coins, that decision is made on the coins value as well as if I am unsure about the coin because of some other issue that I see from the on line photo. After viewing Heritage lots last week I now fully appreciate how important it is to see coins in hand .

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

James, even though we differ about CAC, it sounds as if we mostly agree on collecting and enjoyment of coins.

 

By the way, when I said "But sometimes each of us can learn more about the COIN from others." I wasn't necessarily speaking about "GRADE". Maybe YOU are the one who is overly concerned about and fixated on grades.

Maybe, but in the context of "buy the coin not the slab/sticker", they're just about always talkin' 'bout "grade" !

[gmarguli]

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for all the Pawns . “The hobby of Kings” ?? That is a rather arrogant comment on your part.

 

Just because you haven't heard that statement before doesn't make me arrogant for repeating it. I didn't coin it.

[MarkFeld]

No, I did not see the PVC on the coin and neither did PCGS when they slabbed the coin. I think Oreville had 9 coins with PVC that he did not see. Not as easy as you suggest. John Albanese said the coin was AT and he had it in his hand. I'll go with his opinion.

 

The PVC may not have shown when slabbed.It also may not have been PVC, just PVC like toning.

 

The graders also saw the coin in hand and they didn't think AT. You'll go with his opinion over the 3 graders and your original opinion. Interesting...

A CAC opinion is that of John Albanese, as well as two other extremely competent graders.

 

Are you saying that CAC uses 3 graders per coin? Or that CAC has 3 graders to choose from and one grader will see the coin?

 

CAC evaluates far fewer coins and probably spends more time examining them. They also have the advantage of screening coins that have already been evaluated by NGC or PCGS, just as those companies do when they consider crossovers.

 

Maybe or maybe not. CAC evaluates far fewer coins, but has far fewer graders looking at them. They may spend significantly less time looking at each coin, or the same or more time.

I believe that CAC usually uses 3 graders per coin.

[MarkFeld]

James, even though we differ about CAC, it sounds as if we mostly agree on collecting and enjoyment of coins.

 

By the way, when I said "But sometimes each of us can learn more about the COIN from others." I wasn't necessarily speaking about "GRADE". Maybe YOU are the one who is overly concerned about and fixated on grades.

Maybe, but in the context of "buy the coin not the slab/sticker", they're just about always talkin' 'bout "grade" !

I disagree. There are MANY coins which I think are properly graded, but still ugly and/or undesirable for some reason. "Buy the coin, not the holder" is often about a lot more than just the grade.

[TomB]

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for all the Pawns . “The hobby of Kings” ?? That is a rather arrogant comment on your part.

 

Just because you haven't heard that statement before doesn't make me arrogant for repeating it. I didn't coin it.

Nice pun, Greg! (thumbs u

 

I will add one thing with respect to my experience with CAC and that is of the coins I had them evaluate there was a single piece that I thought they whiffed on and I have written about that previously on the boards. Recently, I visited CAC with a few coins and one of the coins in-hand was the coin I thought they evaluated incorrectly during their first view. I mentioned my disagreement with JA and they looked at the coin again and agreed with me this time. In my opinion, this second CAC decision was the correct decision and it was nice to see the change in determination given the fact that CAC could have easily dismissed my points regarding the coin.

 

Also, I must state that there have been some coins that have received the CAC sticker that I have not agreed with in terms of position within a grade, but we are writing about CAC standards and not TomB standards.

[Mark T]

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for all the Pawns . “The hobby of Kings” ?? That is a rather arrogant comment on your part.

 

Just because you haven't heard that statement before doesn't make me arrogant for repeating it. I didn't coin it.

 

You did not "coin it" but you believe it – still arrogant .

Not here to pick a fight with you as I do respect your knowledge .

My Favorite chess piece has always been the rook .

[mtnstyne]

Never even seen a CAC sticker in person but I will provide a rookie perspective if no one minds.

 

In my opinion CAC is merely a tool for investors and sellers alike to add a premium to an already authenticated and certified coin. If CAC wanted to really provide a service to coin collectors they would review other companies coins as well such as ANACS or ICG. I have seen both holders with coins that are equally graded or better than some NGC and PCGS and I think it would be more beneficial to know if there are problems from any legitimate company.

 

Grading and CAC stickering is about increasing the sell value of a coin, it doesn't change the coin at all, it adds confidence to inspire someone to shell out some additional money without having to know anything about the coin or collecting.

 

Why doesn't CAC just start slabbing coins themselves? I can only guess they would sell at a premium to PCGS.

 

I used to work with a guy who only would use "cross" ink pens and had to have Tommy Hilfiger stenciled boxers, Oakley sun glasses, etc...I am sure if he ever starts collecting coins he will have to have CAC stickers...just my opinion.

[Mozin]

What I have learned about CAC is that they use slightly different grading standards than PCGS. It surprised me when a number of my NGC/CAC coins would not cross to PCGS at grade, or even the next grade lower. On the other hand, some of my NGC coins that failed the green bean test, crossed to PCGS at grade.

 

When I look at an auction lot with CAC approval, I expect the bidding to be elevated slightly. How much elevated depends on the popularity of the coin. As has been stated, some times an NGC/CAC coin will bring PCGS prices, but not often. PCGS holdered Bust Series coins still bring the top prices.

 

CAC is a positive addition to the coin collecting hobby. I just wish there was some way to get the overgraded coins out of TPG holders, and into properly graded holders. The genuine label has helped some.

[leeg]

Quite a few excellent comments so far. I've sent coins to CAC with no surprises on the results. I've talked with John on a couple of occasions about coins and feel that CAC has it's place in the hobby. I don't go out of my way to purchase CAC coins but have a better comfort level about a coin when I see the sticker.

[SkyMan]

I don't really care one way or another about CAC. CAC does not claim to only grade premium coins. They claim to grade coins that, "make the grade". They can be a help, but if the coin looks nice and is not stickered I could care less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not impressed by CAC.

Have you used their service?

 

No...but the coins I have purchased that have the sticker on it, are not impressive in my opinion.

 

If they are not impressive WHY are you buying them?

[JJSingleton]

Expert opinions on my coins are always welcome. And I certainly would put JA in that category. Slabs and stickers are not a requisite for me to buy a coin but I certainly appreciate the opinions they provide.

[ultra-crepidarian]

Personally, I have no problem with CAC grading of coins and the market seems to be accepting the designation as measured by increased liquidity and premium prices paid for CAC stickered coins.

 

This is my understanding of what the sticker means feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

 

Within any grade you will have a distribution of the quality of the coins within the grade. Traditionally, these were designated as A, B or C categories. A green CAC sticker means that the coin is technically graded properly and falls into the A or B categories within the grade (that is, is solid for its grade). Failure to receive CAC certification does not imply that the coin is improperly graded. The CAC designation also does not indicate a “Premium Quality” coin. Since the designation does not distinguish between A and B categories and makes no claims to eye appeal. I would expect that all properly graded PCGS and NGC plus coins should be CAC certifiable since these should fall into the A class category.

 

Do you think that the introduction of plus grading by PCGS and NGC was a response to CAC’s popularity?

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Do you think that the introduction of plus grading by PCGS and NGC was a response to CAC’s popularity?

Personally, I think PCGS introduced their "plus" because they didn't have anything to compete with NGC's "star". I know, the two don't mean the same thing, but when the kid across the street has a shiny new rattle and all the other kids on the block admire it, then you wanna get your own new rattle, too.

 

Oh, and of course, adding a new grade designation means lots more crackouts and lots more submissions!

 

I am sure that in a couple of years or so, striped slabs, or grades printed in cursive with disappearing ink, will be all the rage - as long as it leads to more resubmissions .

[BillJones]

My opinion in a word is disappointed. CAC is not as consistent as I had hoped it would be.

 

But I will say this. When I bought an expensive coin with the CAC sticker that proved to be over graded, John bought the piece from me for what I paid.

 

[DC Dawg]

CAC? Why would anyone be against having a Common Access Card? I mean I have one and it lets me access the systems I need to do my work. Everyone I work with has one. Having a CAC is a good thing.

 

Wait... oh! This is a coin forum. NEVER MIND!!!

[ksteelheader]

It's a useless service designed to make money off insecure people.

 

I agree!!

[Walkerfan]

CAC, Star, Secure, +....it's totally ridiculous. MS 63 should MEAN ms 63. All this craziness just proves how inaccurate the grades on slabs really are. Personally, if a coin looks good to me, I will buy it regardless of whether it has a CAC green sticker or not. It's nice to have one on your slab, when you go to sell someday, but as a collector it doesn't mean a thing to me. I think its more geared toward investors and people who are buying sight unseen (which I would NEVER do! BTW) and those who may not be as educated about coins as some others might be. And yes, I have seen some green beans that are on ugly, sub-par slabbed coins.

[michael]

i love cac

 

and if i am buying a slabbed coin and i love it for the price the person wants

 

if it does have a cac sticker on it just a plus for me if it already meets or exceeds my standards based on waht the holdered grade states

 

in other words if i buy a coin i think meets my standards for at least above average eye appeal and at least meets my standards for what is stated on the holder then a cac sticker is just a bonus to me

 

not needed but i do know in the marketplace that the cac sticker if the coin is nice will be in more demand when selling for the type of coins i like and many times brings stronger money so it is okie by me

(thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

[mommam17]

I agree!!