2010 Silver Panda Fakes and eBay Indifference

[Pandacollector]

Here is a photo of a 2010 silver Panda counterfeit next to a real one. The genuine coin is on the right.

 

 

Notice (1) how high up the Yuan symbol on the counterfeit is, (2) the textures in the fur and (3) the uneven spacing between the letters.

 

I've started a web page, Bad Bears: The Panda Counterfeit Report, to help collectors identify counterfeit Panda coins. It shows photos of fakes next to genuine coins like the one above. This information is particularly timely because there is one eBay member who has sold more than 300 counterfeit coins and silver bars in the last couple of weeks. eBay has failed to take action against this fraud despite emails and calls from numerous collectors and dealers.

 

Panda fakes are not hard to spot when you know what to look for—they tend to be not very well made.

 

Best wishes,

Peter Anthony

pandacollector.com www.pandacollector.com

 

 

[DC Dawg]

Great information on your web page. I just tweeted it out to my followers (@coinsblog). It is something all collectors should be aware of!

 

Scott

[Conder101]

Unfortunately it also gets the information about what they are doing wrong back to the counterfeiters very quickly so they know what to fix.

 

That's what tends to be the problem. How to get the information out to the collectors so they can protect themselves without telling the counterfeiters how to fix their product. If you don't spread the information you might as well not have it. But spread it too widely and it once again quickly becomes worthless.

[Pandacollector]

How to get the information out to the collectors so they can protect themselves without telling the counterfeiters how to fix their product. If you don't spread the information you might as well not have it. But spread it too widely and it once again quickly becomes worthless.

 

This crook in China is swindling dozens of people out of hundreds or thousands of dollars a day. I've gotten a couple of emails from people who unwittingly bought fakes on eBay, saw the information posted on Bad Bears and now will press PayPal for refunds. They are angry but at least understand what happened and have a chance to reclaim their money. They haven't given up on collecting coins. I think its better to spread widely the information needed to spot counterfeits. At the least, the more claims eBay/PayPal has to pay the more attentive it will become to the problem and that would be a step forward. Comments?

 

Best wishes,

Peter Anthony

www.pandacollector.com

[Pandacollector]

Negative feedbacks for colorful8876 may have triggered an identity shuffle among eBay counterfeit sellers. There are a couple of new sellers of the exact same junk: soul.hk and updang1. SHUN THESE SELLERS-the photos they display are of fakes. It is quite possible that these sellers are all part of the same operation and that the bad feedbacks have caused them to switch names. It is also possible that these kinds of bogus Pandas has become widely distributed and copycat sellers are jumping in grab part of the gravy for themselves. The best strategy for buyers is to know what real Pandas look like and to know the characteristics of fake ones. This is not very hard as comparison photos can be found online. The one thing to not do is to rely on eBay to protect you. There is plenty of evidence that this type of fraud is a low priority for them.

 

Best wishes,

Peter Anthony

www.pandacollector.com/fakes

[DC Dawg]

Unfortunately it also gets the information about what they are doing wrong back to the counterfeiters very quickly so they know what to fix.

 

That's what tends to be the problem. How to get the information out to the collectors so they can protect themselves without telling the counterfeiters how to fix their product. If you don't spread the information you might as well not have it. But spread it too widely and it once again quickly becomes worthless.

This is the type of thing those of us who work in information security deal with on a nearly daily basis. We find bugs and other issues that are reported to the vendor, but how do we tell the rest of the world how to protect themselves?

 

In the infosec industry, the bug is reported and the company is given what would be considered a "reasonable" amount of time. Reasonable is an undefined concept that depends on the response from the vendor (did they fix it in a few days or is it a few weeks with no resolution), communications from the vendor (silence can be deafening), and the ego of the person reporting the issue. If it what we call a zero-day bug (the exploit is out in the wild and can infect you at a moment's notice) then the error is published immediately. Regardless of how the issue is reported, it eventually gets published to scare the world into patching their system--or not!

 

Based on my experience, I would rather tell the buyers what to watch for than not say anything. This will put pressure on the counterfeiters for not selling product and interrupt the supply chain. If the counterfeiters do not make money, tney mau not have enough money to change their dies... etc.

 

I appreciate the information on the counterfeits.

 

Scott

[Pandacollector]

The latest development is that the malefactors have moved up the food chain and are now offering "gold" coins. eBay sellers colorful8876, updang1 and Soul.hk (possibly the same person or organization as they share the same photos) are now selling 1/10 and 1/20 oz. 2010 gold Pandas. These same sellers have sold hundreds of presumably counterfeit silver Pandas to unwary eBay customers over the last month. (I say presumably because the photos were of fake coins, but I am still waiting for a shipment to arrive so that I can inspect the actual coins). Add to this the 61 1/10 oz. Pandas at $86 a pop that updang1 has sold in the last 4 days.

 

Unlike the silver Pandas, the photos of these new items appear to be of genuine coins. The photos are linked to a Chinese social networking website, so these could be photos posted originally by innocent collectors in China. Assuming the coins are fake (which is very, very likely) they will be composed of copper or a base metal alloy that is plated with a thin layer of gold. Their intrinsic value will be just pennies.

 

A final question for all potential eBay bargain hunters: why would a person sell a 1/10 oz. gold coin for $86? That works out to $860/oz. while an ounce of gold brings more than $300 more. As the old saying goes, if a deal is too good to be true it probably isn't.

 

Best wishes,

Peter Anthony

www.pandacollector.com

[ultra-crepidarian]

I joined E-Bay and PayPal a couple weeks ago to purchase a coin that was offered. I read through all of the documentation and read the user boards and I will tell you that I am not at all favorably impressed with that company. They have some real problems. Once they are put on notice, e-bay needs to be shut down these sellers immediately!

[mkman123]

just saw this thread, I am so glad I stayed away from Chinese pandas! The fakes look pretty close to the real thing and I am sure there are many people unknowingly having fake pandas in their collection

[Pandacollector]

To each their own but you are missing out on one of the world's most dynamic areas of numismatics, as well as some very cool coins. Chinese coins in general have seen a tremendous increase in collector interest. For instance, I know of one modern copper-nickel coin selling for $5,000+. Many Pandas have increased in value by huge amounts as their scarcity has been recognized, like a 1/20 oz. coin that still catalogs for $135 but trades at $2,000.The Panda fakes are identifiable, which is why I started my Bad Bears web page, and the fun is real.

 

Best wishes,

Peter Anthony

Pandacollector.com

[qwasty-migration]

Also, stick with authenticated and graded coins slabbed by PCGS or NGC, and bought from reputable sellers, and you don't have to worry about it.