A VERY SERIOUS SITUATION FOR ALL MEMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spy88]

I thread and post on both sides of the street. (Like it here better, tho).

 

Someone over there threaded a link to an eBay auction page that showed the seller hand-holding their coins for the camera. I emailed the seller and very politely pointed out the effect this could have on the coins. The seller emailed me back saying I was not the only one looking out for the sake of the coins as they had gotten one from someone else earlier. They also went on to say that their page is copyright protected and any link to an item or items without their express permission, is in violation of the laws of all 52 states AND PCGS forum regs.

 

The seller contacted PCGS, PCGS pulled the thread, and the original thread starter will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and with the permission and assistance of PCGS. As they are cooperating, the seller is not holding them liable.

 

The point of all this is.... do not link any items and/or pages to the forums prior to obtaining the permission of the seller/owner! Even with their permission, I do not think this a good idea for any of us to do anymore!

[truthteller]

For some reason, that doesn't sound right. If this were the case, then everything and everybody would be sued for copyright infringement. Something that is copyrighted is not to be reused or resold for profit motives. I'm not 100% sure, maybe the lawyers can say a bit more.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[TJ]

We have 52 states now?

[Freiherr]

Unless something has changed, there is no liability in placing links to other pages or sites and you do not have to have permission to do so.

 

Pictures are a little different (though not a link to the picture). You do need permission to post images owned by other people. The question is if they actually own it and they may give up those rights if the post it on ebay (where it may become ebay property).

 

Full extent of the law? Ian all 52 states? Sounds like someone is full of it. Sure, you could sue someone in theory, but taking it to trial is a different story.

 

[joe_collector]

Is this an EBay page? If so, then it's EBay property (sellers are just renting space) and this smells pretty funny to me...

 

Is it April Fool's already?

[goose3]

Sounds like a total BS Scare tactic on the part of the seller.

[spy88]

As stated in PCGS User Agreement, there is a clause that the members must agree to and accept that states...

 

"You agree you will not use our forums to post any material, or links to any material, which is knowingly false and/or defamatory , inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harrassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a persons privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

 

"You agree that you will not post any material without the express permission of the copyright holder, unless such copyright is owned by you, this forum."

 

This only came to the attention of the seller because myself and a previous emailer informed them of the thread. I am fairly sure other eBay sellers have copyright protection and have their material used illegally, they just aren't aware that it is happening on these (and other) forums.

 

As I said earlier, PCGS is cooperating and DID pull the thread. Whether or not the mentioned lawsuit will be forthcoming will not likely ever be known unless PCGS makes a blanket statement to its members regarding their rules. The statement about 52 states came straight from their email to me. The first line was...

 

"It was an illegal link. I am a copyright business. To use a link to my auctions with my pictures is illegal without my permission in 52 states."

 

Remember everyone, that the liability rests with the original thread maker who breached PCGS user Agreement. It is to this end that the seller has the complaint, legal or not away from PCGS forum. And I might add, NGC has a very similar clause to be found in their "Rules".

[XpipedreamR]

Linking to basically an advertisement for an auction on a site open to the public? How is that a violation of anything? That sounds really fishy to me.

[gmarguli]

Doesn't sound right. However, I believe PCGS pulled it. PCGS wimped out when that jerk William Gibbs of Coin World whined that I copied a few words from his site and he throw a hissy fit. Funny thing was most of the words were things they copied from others.

 

You can link to anything you want and no one can do anything about it.

[Russ-migration]

The seller is blowing smoke up yours and CU's asses. There is no violation of anything - be it privacy, or copyright - in posting a link to an already publicly posted web site. The admins at CU obviously know nothing of how the internet works.

 

Russ, NCNE

[goose3]

we should ask Al Gore since he invented it.

[spy88]

Regardless of the legalities of the issue, I am hoping any Moderator will chime in with info pertaining to this from their side of it.

 

David

[Tomega]

You can link to anything you want and no one can do anything about it.

 

Absolutely true - this is all a bunch of bunk. I would love to debate the insufficiently_thoughtful_person who complained that his pictures were copyrighted. Someone needs a crash course in the fair use laws - there are no hard laws for linking. Not to mention I seriously doubt the eBay pictures were copyrighted - I would have told them to send proof of ownership and then I would have told them to stick it. If PCGS had any balls they would have simplky replaced the links with text url address - end of story there.

 

Here is some interesting links.

 

http://www.templetons.com/brad/linkright.html

http://www.templetons.com/brad/linkright.html

 

[jtryka]

So let me get this straight, someone links an auction to presumable complain/illustrate/discuss a point and that is copyright infringement. But 2 years ago someone uses my photos and my description to sell their coin, and ebay ignores it despite my protests. So one with no direct profit motive is illegal, but the one with the profit motive is not (by the way, mine still sold for $50 more). This seems stupid, but there are a lot of things in the law/lawyers that strike me as stupid.

[comicwiz]

omeone needs a crash course in the fair use laws - there are no hard laws for linking. Not to mention I seriously doubt the eBay pictures were copyrighted - I would have told them to send proof of ownership and then I would have told them to stick it. If PCGS had any balls they would have simplky replaced the links with text url address - end of story there.

 

Although a stretch of what constitutes fair-use laws, has anyone ever wondered why PayPal, which is now an eBay company can't do anything about sites like www.paypalsucks.com or www.payolapal.com? Both sites -- according to the definitions set out by the seller above, and the PCGS disclaimers -- are not only using the PayPal name freely on their site, but they are taking liberties in ruining PayPal's reputation.

 

Short answer: because they can't do anything about it!

[TomB]

Urban legend.

 

Oh yeah, New York city seceded from New York state to become Urbania, while the Upper Peninsula of Michigan cut all ties with Michigan and is now simply known as The U-P. That's how we have 52 states.

[Tomega]

omeone needs a crash course in the fair use laws - there are no hard laws for linking. Not to mention I seriously doubt the eBay pictures were copyrighted - I would have told them to send proof of ownership and then I would have told them to stick it. If PCGS had any balls they would have simplky replaced the links with text url address - end of story there.

 

Although a stretch of what constitutes fair-use laws, has anyone ever wondered why PayPal, which is now an eBay company can't do anything about sites like www.paypalsucks.com or www.payolapal.com? Both sites -- according to the definitions set out by the seller above, and the PCGS disclaimers -- are not only using the PayPal name freely on their site, but they are taking liberties in ruining PayPal's reputation.

 

Short answer: because they can't do anything about it!

 

The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. Criticizing Paypal is just that.

[Leothelion]

Regardless of the legalities of the issue, I am hoping any Moderator will chime in with info pertaining to this from their side of it.

 

David

 

You'd think if there were any infringements going on, NGC would already be on top of it, like monitering and editing every post, since it's their forum, and it's snowing outside.........

 

Leo

[Stynxno]

:

omeone needs a crash course in the fair use laws - there are no hard laws for linking. Not to mention I seriously doubt the eBay pictures were copyrighted - I would have told them to send proof of ownership and then I would have told them to stick it. If PCGS had any balls they would have simplky replaced the links with text url address - end of story there.

 

Although a stretch of what constitutes fair-use laws, has anyone ever wondered why PayPal, which is now an eBay company can't do anything about sites like www.paypalsucks.com or www.payolapal.com? Both sites -- according to the definitions set out by the seller above, and the PCGS disclaimers -- are not only using the PayPal name freely on their site, but they are taking liberties in ruining PayPal's reputation.

 

Short answer: because they can't do anything about it!

 

The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. Criticizing Paypal is just that.

 

There were several lawsuits made by companies against websites that did this (some big bank tried this not too long ago) and the court ruled that the no trademark or copyright was violated and that people have the right to complain about a company. It's legal to have a website called www.paypalsucks.com.

 

[chinook]

we should ask Al Gore since he invented it.

[chinook]

Urban legend.

 

Oh yeah, New York city seceded from New York state to become Urbania, while the Upper Peninsula of Michigan cut all ties with Michigan and is now simply known as The U-P. That's how we have 52 states.

 

Another

 

I thought maybe he was refering to Canada and Mexico.

 

 

Why would this guy get so upset about someone making a recommendation on the proper way to handle coins? Its people like this that reaffirm my belief in Darwinism. Some of us just havent evolved completely yet.

[Beijim]

This is krap. You can't copyright a link. Try copyrighting your street address or telephone number or email address sometime when you have a few million extra brain cells you'd like to kill off.

 

Some of these wankers really need to raise their medication.

 

Beijim

 

NOTE TO WANKERS: This post is not legal advice. It is my opinion only.

[BushMan]

Spy88- So who at PCGS started the thread with the auction link?

[spy88]

It was pulled before I could get back to it with the response from the seller to my email. Honestly, do not remember.

[Oldtrader3]

Actually, we have (53) states if you include Bagdad by the Bay!