How well do YOU know gold?

[spy88]

Forget attachment---doesn't work.

From seized property auctions---guess the grade (its raw) and place a value on it.

Will disclose hammer after a few guesses.

 

http://www.seizedpropertyauctions.com/neo/neo.exe?item=2629

 

[jtryka]

I am going to say solid MS-64 with a shot at MS-65. A fair price for the coin, at MS-64 would be in the $13K-15K range, and at MS-65 would be $18K-24K. I am curious to see how it ended!

[michael]

impossible to tell from the scan

 

and i am assuming it is a genuine original mint product

 

could be ever so slightly cleaned/hairlined/rubbed and not be able to see it in the scan as usually gold always looks better in scans or could be a superb gem!!!

 

if someone thought it was a true gem as they examined it sight seen then 18k

 

or someone who has lots of money to spend and does not know coins it could go for lots more!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

but be that as it may from the scan my guesstimate is

 

choice unc. 12k

 

 

 

michael

[michael]

a fantastic thread we need more like these!!

 

 

michael

[spy88]

Thanks Michael. Asked the same question to those on the other side of the street.

They are in a general agreement for a grade of MS70 if it is real! There is always skepticism over there, and some say too nice to be real!

 

But why would they advertise it for auction, let it run up and sell to someone if NOT real? Major disappointment for the winner if true!

[BillJones]

It's impossible to place a value on this coin from a scan. It could be an Omega counterfeit for all we know. There is no way to look inside the eagle's claw.

 

At any rate I'll tell you than it is NOT an MS-70. I see a break in the frost on Ms. Liberty's bust line and another dull spot on the highest part of the eagle's wing.

[jom]

I think the whole coin looks dull but some of those WR's look that way with the satin luster and all. It's either that or it was cleaned. It's just impossible to tell from the picture...

 

jom

[jtryka]

They are in a general agreement for a grade of MS70 if it is real! There is always skepticism over there, and some say too nice to be real!

 

MS-70?!?!?!?!? Clearly those folks have been spending too much time looking at American Eagle gold bullion coins in PCGS holders on the shop at home network. Is there no one left over there who knows this series???

 

This is an HR Saint, they are supposed to look awesome! This coin seems to be genuine, and the only instance where it would not be geniune is if it was an Omega, but we cannot see the claw close enough to tell for sure. HR Saints are extremely difficult to counterfeit, and most fakes are obvious (this one is not, leading me to believe it's most likely genuine). It is certainly a nice coin, and I stick by my original guesses as to grade and value.

 

Very interesting debate!

[gmarguli]

AU58.

[jom]

AU58.

 

I don't see the rub on the knee but it might be cleaned...

 

jom

[TomB]

I'm using common sense to grade it, if it is indeed a genuine US Mint product and if it hasn't been cleaned so as to preclude certification in a reputable third-party certification holder, as AU58. If it were truly MS it would likely be in a slab by now.

[jtryka]

I don't see the rub either. There may be some on the breast or edges of the eagle's wings, but I don't see it in the photo. It seems to have a nice matte finish, not unusual. could it be cleaned? I suppose, but I don't see any hairlines or anything that would make me scream cleaned! And even at AU-58 it's gonna sell for $9K. The latest Heritage archives:

 

MS-65: $25K-45K

MS-64: $17K-19K

MS-63: $14K-18K

MS-62: $9K-11K

MS-61: $8K-10K

AU-58: $7K-9K

AU-55: $6K-8K

 

 

[jom]

Have prices on AU58s gone up recently? It seems you could get one for around $5k at one time not too long ago.....

 

I agree with TomB. Grading by common sense seems to be the way to go.

 

jom

[TomB]

I realize it's an expensive coin even in AU58, however, I was dealing with the psychology of paying that much for an AU58 when, for such a relatively small premium, you can potentially upgrade the coin to MS62.

[gmarguli]

AU58.

 

I don't see the rub on the knee but it might be cleaned...

 

jom

 

Front leg from the knee up to the waist. On the reverse on the fron top feathers to the left of the really long feathers. Those areas look a little flat and discolored to me.

[jom]

I realize it's an expensive coin even in AU58, however, I was dealing with the psychology of paying that much for an AU58 when, for such a relatively small premium, you can potentially upgrade the coin to MS62.

 

Yes, assuming it is in fact an upgrade. I see many AU coins that are nicer than many MS coins.

 

It does seem, if jtryka's prices are correct, that the AU58s have gone up quite a bit in recent years.

 

Another problem I'd have with this issue in particular is that you are paying BIG TIME for a relatively "common" coin. The HR is not a rare coin by any means. It kind of reminds me of the 1907 Eagle. It goes for a premium above many other issues but it just isn't that hard to find.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

Couple of minor luster breaks on reverse. Small luster breaks on left breast and knee. Looks like minor ticks in ® field of obverse. Can't see if it has any minor hairlines. Nice coin though!

[spy88]

The reason I started this thread was because there was some concern (here and across the street) about the auction house itself being able to bid up their own items. I saw this as a chance to maybe verify it one way or the other with your grade estimates, hence a value. "If raw, you must quantify before you can qualify".

 

Ok, everybody! I really want to thank all of you for participating in this thread. It was very informative for me as I have never owned, tried to buy or grade a gold coin of any denomination. I learned a lot!

 

Now, the concensus seems to be somewhere around a grade of AU58 to MS62. Jeff, you went for 64.

If original and uncleaned, value should be in the range of $7000 to $12,000.

 

What would you say to a hammer of $17,530.00???

 

David

 

 

[jtryka]

What would you say to a hammer of $17,530.00???

 

I would say whoever bought it thought is was in the MS-63/64 range. Is that risky? Absolutely! This could be an omega, and worth melt, it could be cleaned and AU. But let me say a couple things on this, first is it unusual that this would be raw? Yes, but look at the source, if this is a government or quasi-government agency, then it wouldn't surprise me a bit. They found it in an abandoned safe deposit box, and they just want to sell it. From the photo it's almost impossible to grade, some see a rub and honestly I don't. I've seen a lot of HRs in 63, 64 and 65 holders, and the photo of this one stacks up against them technically, though you cannot see the luster or luster breaks in the actual coin from the photo. Finally, computer photography is the best possible method to accentuate any minor flaw in a gold coin's surface. Who knows, but $17.5K is not surprising to me.

[TomB]

The price seems a bit steep to me. Of course, we are all talking about a single set of images anyway.

 

Just so Jeff and others might know, this is not a government or quasi-government agency. It is a private company that seems to be going to great pains to look like a Federal recovered/seized property agency. To put it plainly, I don't trust this group at all.

[michael]

oh wow i thought it was a govenrmental agency well now my opinion changes it is really strange

 

maybe the bidder got to look at the coin sight seen? before bidding on it??

 

maybe it is a shill bid??

 

michael

[jtryka]

I guess I was duped too, as I thought this was a government agency too. Well, did someone pay too much? Maybe, but it's still a very nice coin from the photo, and it would be interesting to see it in person and see what it grades.