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Italy 5 Lira 1873 - Mint Mark ID

10 posts in this topic

Newbie here - Happy New Year to ALL

Can anyone tell me which image depicts the original and which depicts the counterfit?

Thank you for your help.

 

Let's qualify this just a smidge - shall we?

Of the top picture, I have 17 coins - each in very fine condition. The mint marks are scripted "M" (to the left of L) and "B" (to the right of 5).

Of the bottom picture, I have 11 coins - each in good condition. The mint mark is a single letter "R" (to the left of L).

 

One of these mint marks is a counterfit, but nowhere have I been able to confirm which.

 

Is there a resident expert able to shed light on a seemingly simple question?

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Forgive me for being blunt, but if you've bought nearly or over a dozen coins of each type and you think one of these is counterfeit, then you've been exceedingly foolish. You should have asked this question a long time ago and stopped buying until you had an answer.

 

That said, unless there is someone knowledgable in Italian coins from this period in the forums, if it was worth it to you to buy 28 coins for what I'm sure was a fair bit of money, it should be worth it to you to buy a book on the subject and get a definite and reliable answer.

 

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh here but I'm having a hard time understanding why you've done this.

 

I hope you get your answer. The forums are much more active on the weekends than during the week.

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Forgive me for being blunt, but if you've bought nearly or over a dozen coins of each type and you think one of these is counterfeit, then you've been exceedingly foolish. You should have asked this question a long time ago and stopped buying until you had an answer.

 

That said, unless there is someone knowledgable in Italian coins from this period in the forums, if it was worth it to you to buy 28 coins for what I'm sure was a fair bit of money, it should be worth it to you to buy a book on the subject and get a definite and reliable answer.

 

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh here but I'm having a hard time understanding why you've done this.

 

I hope you get your answer. The forums are much more active on the weekends than during the week.

 

You're right - it would be foolish to purchase said coins without first investigating -

 

did I say they were purchased?

 

Perhaps one should read the detail before spouting. For not everything is purchased, sometimes treasures are found - uncovered, washed ashore, even handed down.

 

As to a book, perhaps you're right. But then....what purpose would this forum serve. In reviewing several of your 1400+ posts, you seem pretty quick to judge - perhaps you should buy a book on manners and learn a smidge of humility while you're at it.

 

Of 28 coins - differing mint marks appear - yet all bear the same year and demonimation. A simple question remains - which image bears the correct mint mark.

 

Resident experts need only reply - thank you.

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...you seem pretty quick to judge - perhaps you should buy a book on manners and learn a smidge of humility while you're at it.

 

With all due respect, perhaps you should take a bit of your own medicine. He is only trying to understand the situation.

 

I am not an expert on Italian coins.

 

The "MB" signifies the Milan mint.

 

The "R" signifies the Rome mint.

 

Why do you assume that any of these are counterfeit?

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Nice one Bugmann. I was thinking the R one was a fake. You are on the money, cman why do you think they are fake ? just weigh them for starters.

 

There could be correctly weighted fakes of course. I'll do some more googling such as "1873 5 Lire counterfeit". If there aren't any already known, I doubt yours are new fakes noone has ever seen before in 137 years ? ;)

 

Forum seems to be very useful today :)

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.my/1873-M-KINGDOM-OF-ITALY-5-LIRE-SILVER-KM-8-3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ370221835927

 

Here's one of the M B ones on ebay, seller guarantees its legit and has decent feedback, fancy listings and Auctiva etc. Most scammers don't have any effort just list the and hope for the best :P

 

 

Both your coins appear to have all the same characteristics except for the mint marks, the color of the surface, and perhaps the surface texture.

 

I'm no expert on these type of coins, I have never dealt with them but the usual rules must apply.

 

Compare to known real coins.

 

If you have a 20x lens perhaps hunt around the coin for bumps or dips in the fields or devices, often the sign of a poorly made fake

 

If we think of anything else we will post. Welcome to the forums :)

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Ok, OP was right to come here.

 

I searched high and low and ended up with google "1873 5 Lire" counterfeit

 

One result. This page http://www.coinsoftheglobe.com/otherworldcoins.html

 

#

# 1873, 5 Lire, deceptive silver fake, BU, $20

 

So they do exist. And deceptive, so probably even close to or the right weight (25 silver?)

 

Email the guy on that website and ask him how to identify :) perhaps he will even join the forums if you ask him ?

 

Gotta run, good luck !

 

 

PS I'm gonna guess the bottom coin is fake. Metal color just seems off, as does the surface. Who knows until we get more info, they both might be. Surely they are if the mintage was so low, how would one person have so many ? big hoard if they are real. Very doubtful the more I think about it

 

This site may come in handy have a quick read, CTRL F and search for 1873 or lire

 

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Coin-Collecting-2297/still-need-help-coins.htm

 

Quote:

VITTORIO EMANUELE II 1873 ITALIA Rome 5 Lire, should also weigh 25 grams if genuine and would contain .7234 of an ounce of silver, worth $200+, possibly a counterfeit.

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http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/VEMIISILVER.HTML

 

There you go mate. Now I really have to go

 

My guess is the R coin is possibly a fake. Fairly low mintage, the color of the coin, the surface and value.

 

The M coins should all be genuine if the details match up. Who would counterfeit a coin with over 8 million minted ? unless to fake the silver content. Merchants back then were probably smart enough to weigh every coin.

 

So M is not fake, agreed ? :D

 

And if the R coin is 25g, you could be on a winner. Still contact the guy I mentioned above who KNOWS he has a counterfeit. Images and help on how to detect should be forthcoming if you do :)

 

Then again, check out the BOTTOM of the R coin. Those fine details are not the same. Fake !? it doesn't look QUITE the same. The banner piece around the sides.. I guess it could be the image. Here is what we are comparing, would be nice to have better picture of the R coin top down or a SCAN

 

ita2d.jpg

 

Worst image edit ever, but can you see the bit I mean ? interested to see if its 25g.

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RareSov, first we need to find out a very valid peice of information before we can begin to evaluate.

 

Are the pics in the original post of his actual coins or are they just pictures he borrowed off of the net? The two pictures he used are taken very differently so I would imagine that they are borrowed pictures.

 

He does not assume that they are fake because they look off, he assumes some of them are fake because he didn't know that both MB and R mintmarks were used that year.

 

Or maybe I have it totaly wrong and he has other reasons?

 

Cman, any chance we can get some additional info?

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I'm assuming the R mint coin could be fake. But as I say the other is 8.4 million mintage lol

 

The R coin is known to have been faked in the past. Or at least some 1873 has, since its on the coin dealer site above as a fake.

 

I'd say 50/50 it looks dodgy just in a little bit of the finer details. But its really too hard to tell without clear scans

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