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Resto Question from Comic Forum....

Started by chrisco37,

9 posts in this topic

chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted

I posted this in NGC Forum as well:

 

Question for the coinee's.... tongue.gif

 

In the Comics Forum, we are discussing the (de)merits of restoration and the impact it has on prices realized in the market. 893blahblah.gif893blahblah.gif893blahblah.gif

 

Long story, short....we were hoping some of you might be able to tell us how NGC or any other grading services handle submissions on coins that are restored.

 

Does the grading service offer a seperate holder (maybe a diff. color) to identify the coin as restored? Is there any infomation on the label as to the extent of the resto (ie. heavy, moderate, slight)? Does it say what work has be performed?

 

And, as a follow up....how are they percieved in the marketplace? Is there a huge difference in acceptance levels between restored vs. un-restored? Etc....

 

Any info would be appreciated! (I might even give you stars, TJ! devil.gif)

 

Thanks! smile.gif

 

Chris

 

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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Proper restoration (cleaning) on a coin cannot be detected. If you remove light toning (coloration) by quickly dipping the coin in an acid solution and you do it properly, there is no way to tell.

 

If the coin shows minor degrees of restoration then the services will usually downgrade the coin. Usually by one point or less.

 

If there is obvious signs of restoration then they (NGC) will not grade the coin. Their sister company NCS will. NCS slabs are different from NGC slabs. However, if the coin is rare enough the services will overlook some cleanings.

 

An obviously cleaned coin will frequently lose a significant amount of value. Figure on average 1/3-1/2 of the original value. It depends on the rarity of the coin and severity of the cleaning.

 

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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If the coin shows minor degrees of restoration then the services will usually downgrade the coin. Usually by one point or less.

 

Gmar - will CGC mention the restoration (and if so, can you give an example of the notation?) or put the coin in a holder with a different color label due to the restoration? Thanks!

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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Gmar - will CGC mention the restoration (and if so, can you give an example of the notation?) or put the coin in a holder with a different color label due to the restoration? Thanks!

 

If the coin gets certified by NGC they will not make any mention of the resortation.

 

If the coin is too bad for NGC and it needs to be slabbed by NCS they will list the problem. Improper Cleaning is the most common term.

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chrisco37

chrisco37

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Thanks Gmar! smile.gif

 

If the coin shows minor degrees of restoration then the services will usually downgrade the coin. Usually by one point or less.

 

Question on this one....(and please excuse my ignorance, I don't know the coin grading system)...Say a coin "looks" an 8 on a 1-10 scale, but is found to have minor cleaning or the like (enough to downgrade it). Would the service grade the coin a "7" and note "Minor Cleaning" on the label, or is the downgrade where it ends?

 

Is it a judgement call solely by the grading company? Or have standards been set that say, "This coin has had xxxx done to it. Therefore we have to downgrade no matter the coin." Or, as you hinted, do certain coins get preferential treatment due to their rarity?

 

Also, is coin resto more frowned upon now than it was in the past? Was there a time when it was a common practice to restore a coin?

 

Thanks again! Very interesting stuff!

 

Chris

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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If the coin shows minor degrees of restoration then the services will usually downgrade the coin. Usually by one point or less.

 

Question on this one....(and please excuse my ignorance, I don't know the coin grading system)...Say a coin "looks" an 8 on a 1-10 scale, but is found to have minor cleaning or the like (enough to downgrade it). Would the service grade the coin a "7" and note "Minor Cleaning" on the label, or is the downgrade where it ends?

 

The coin grading scale goes from 1-70 with 70 being best. Not all numbers are used between 1-70. NGC & PCGS, according to their standards, will not grade cleaned coins. However, over the years many coins have been lightly cleaned. These coins may get graded. If the coin would have graded 63 without the cleaning they may grade the coin 62 instead. They do not grade it "63 Cleaned" or anything like that. The only time something like that would be on a holder is if the coin was so badly cleaned that NGC & PCGS would not grade the coin and it would have to be certified by another company like NCS.

 

 

Is it a judgement call solely by the grading company? Or have standards been set that say, "This coin has had xxxx done to it. Therefore we have to downgrade no matter the coin." Or, as you hinted, do certain coins get preferential treatment due to their rarity?

 

It is a judgement call. If a coin is a very high end 63, yet has a very light cleaning, it very well might still grade 63. It gets knocked down 1/2 a point, but the coin was so high in that particular grade that it doesn't go down to the next grade.

 

 

Also, is coin resto more frowned upon now than it was in the past? Was there a time when it was a common practice to restore a coin?

 

Years ago people used to clean coins. It was common practice. Today it is looked down upon. There are some coins, especially early 19th century coins, which are hard to find without showing signs of cleaning. Since they are so hard to find "original" the services give these coins a lot of extra consideration when it comes to cleaning.

 

Some coins which are rarities can have a lot of restoration. In fact, Territorial Gold, which is very rare, the other grading service admitted that they allow tooling (using a tool to actually engrave extra detail into the coin). Think of it this way, the rarer the coin, the more problems it can have and still get certified.

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CHRISS

CHRISS

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NGC will not grade and encapsulate coins that have detrimental surface problems. These are coins that have improper cleanings, scratches, irreversible environmental damage, or other similar problems. NCS will encapsulate these coins with a grade of the details and a description of the problem. Our holders are the same size as NGC holders with a different colored label and a clear core versus the NGC white core.

 

This is one way coins can still receive the benefits of long term storage in certified holders.

 

Chris, NCS Customer Service

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Why are NGC and NCS presented as two different companies under the same CCG umbrella to the consumer? Are they two totally separate LLCs? In the comics area, CGC grades both restored and unrestored comics...coming from that environment, this NGC/NCS split seems strange to me and I can't think of reasons why there's a split.

 

Is the potential for conflict of interest somehow behind the split?

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