Resto question from the Comic Forum.....

[chrisco37]

Question for the coinee's....

 

In the Comics Forum, we are discussing the (de)merits of restoration and the impact it has on prices realized in the market.

 

Long story, short....we were hoping some of you might be able to tell us how NGC or any other grading services handle submissions on coins that are restored.

 

Does the grading service offer a seperate holder (maybe a diff. color) to identify the coin as restored? Is there any infomation on the label as to the extent of the resto (ie. heavy, moderate, slight)? Does it say what work has be performed?

 

And, as a follow up....how are they percieved in the marketplace? Is there a huge difference in acceptance levels between restored vs. un-restored? Etc....

 

Any info would be appreciated! (I might even give you stars, TJ! )

 

Thanks!

 

Chris

 

[Gunsmoke]

Generally, cleaning a coin can render it worthless and not even graded. It is "body bagged."

 

However, (look in the NCS forum) you can restore a coin and have it graded and slabbed.

 

I am sure there are others that can provide more expert info.

 

Here, I copied this from the NCS forum.

 

Conservation is often a good idea if it is as a means of bringing out the originality of a piece by removing residues and undesirable toning and possibly increasing the grade. It is most beneficial for the preservation and improved eye appeal that can result.

 

The stickers you are referring to are placed there by NGC graders when they see a concern that may be taken care of by our conservation efforts. These stickers are not a guarantee of an up grade by any means. Most likely they saw some diminished eye appeal or other similar surface concern that was detracting from the appearance of the coin which may or may not become a more significant problem in the future depending on how the coin is stored. Receiving a higher grade after conservation is always a possibility but should not be the only reason for deciding whether or not to submit a coin for conservation. The real question is whether the coins needs it, will benefit from it, or is anything on this coin susceptible to causing problems in the future.

 

It is more often that coins maintain their current grade after conservation. However, some have increased a point or saw an upgrade in special designation such as a cameo to an ultra cameo. In some rare cases, and unseen mark or blemish was concealed by the residue or tarnish and that may cause the coin to grade lower after the conservation. This rare situation is why NCS offers grade protection as a part of its conservation service.

 

[truthteller]

Excellent topic!

 

I was recently reading a comic thread about CGC outing a bad boy restorer and fraud comic seller. Many kudos to CGC for providing such valuable information.

 

I've been in the coin hobby for 28 years, and it has always been taught to me that altering a coin to increase it's value is a big taboo. Now there are several ways to alter a coin, by cleaning, by whizzing, by reengraving the surfaces, by artificially coloring the coin, all in the attempt to make the coin look better and appear more valuable. In years past, it was up to the buyer to discern any alterations on a coin. This came by the school of hard knocks whereby, you paid tuition by buying cleaned or altered coins, only to find out what was authentic and what was phoney. Nowadays, you have the grading services on which to rely. While that might be a good thing for the buyer, the grading services often let coins grade that have been altered in some way. Of course, this is a small percentage, but the new collector often uses the grading services as a crutch and often fails to educate himself on the actually nuances of each coin and series.

 

With that said, the crackdown on the coin hobby is much more difficult to do. The graders themselves at one time or another have handled altered coins or knowingly done business with dealers who altered coins. Thus, there is no altruism in this hobby and when one dealer points out the evils of alteration, the accused can point right back and say that everyone knew what was going on. Unfortunately, there is MUCH TOO MUCH money involved to name names, and the corruption continues, albeit in a very sophisticated way. The coin doctors have become very talented, and can fool the best of the graders at any grading service. So it becomes, buyer beware and buyer be educated. And with high end coin prices going through the roof, it behooves the buyer to know the coin and not rely on the holder.

 

It is very difficult at times to get a consensus on what coin has been altered. Yes, an altered or cleaned coin is frowned upon and thus given a lower value. Yet there are buyers at every level. But when a rare coin comes on the marketplace, there are many doctors who will invest money to take a low end coin and try to make it worth more. In general, the grading services probably can detect an altered coin with great frequency. In addition, coins from the 1830's and before tend to have an allowance to be graded, whereby later dated coins might be rejected with the same problems, such as cleaning.

 

WHen it comes to currency, there is much more altruism in this hobby and grading services are frowned upon. The currency hobby is still very 'old school' and the seller and buyer rely on their currency grading abilities much more so than coins.

 

 

TRUTH

[RobertB]

Excellent repsonse Truth. I suppose in the coin biz, just like any other business, when money and capital pour in more scumbags do as well. Unfortunately it is just a way of life.

[fantastic_four]

Now there are several ways to alter a coin, by cleaning, by whizzing

WOW! I never would have guessed that peeing on a coin could alter its aesthetics!

 

 

 

WHen it comes to currency, there is much more altruism in this hobby and grading services are frowned upon. The currency hobby is still very 'old school' and the seller and buyer rely on their currency grading abilities much more so than coins.

 

Any idea why currency has diverged from coins with respect to certification? Since currency is larger and has much more complex artwork, I would expect that the risk of fraud is much greater than with coins. From a novice perspective, it seems a lot easier to reapply ink to currency than to do fine metal engraving with coins.

[LucyBop]

comic thread!!!! My prized Archie!

 

[Red Hook]

Very interesting thread! The forums should exchange info more often!

 

 

[truthteller]

In my opinion, most currency collectors are older than coin collectors. For me, I did not start collecting currency until years after I started collecting coins. Thus, many currency collectors have not embraced the 'new thought' of slabbing. There is a interesting desire to be able to touch, smell, hold currency in one's hand. This desire overcomes the tendencies to have currency slabbed. In addition, most auction houses will not give a return policy for any slabbed graded currency, which I find quite refreshing.

 

 

 

TRUTH