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A cool looking "copper" we just sold....

36 posts in this topic


We just placed this NGC MS66BN* 1838 Coronet Large Cent with a client. I think the grade and * designation were both well deserved. What do you folks think of this one? Feel free to love it or hate it.......



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I bet there is more luster there then the pic shows! Is the obverse nick @ 11 o'clock and the mark just below the ear what kept it from a 67? Still a beautiful copper specimen!!



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mark a totally flowerred.gifflowerred.gifflamed.gifflamed.gif monster coin flamed.gifflamed.gifflamed.gifdevil.gif and i will say why later as i was lucky cloud9.gif to be able to see this coin before it was sold!!!


but mark your threads and posts are better than any coin i might add! thumbsup2.gif


wihlborg you are very astute.... monster color and lustre in person sight seen! 893applaud-thumb.gif


hoot absolutely correct accessment you are usually right on thumbsup2.gif


mdwoods as usual you gots a very good eye cloud9.gif


robertb you always seem to know and pick out the best attributes of a coin thumbsup2.gif


maulemall you are right on thumbsup2.gif


spy88 totally correct


spy you are really very observant now i have seen this coin in person and the scan is slightly deceiving


the "mark" below the ear is die rust two slightly curved patches one right underneath the other! again die rust

but looks circular so it does look like a hit but it is NOT


the hit at 11 pm on the obverse is very shallow, illiptical and sharp and was caused by this coin hitting the just struck rim of another coin at the mint! really the only mark worth mentioning on this coin


this coin in an N-1 a no brainer since it is clearly stated on the holder coronet head cent young head 1837 to 1839 with the small letters reverse


the coin for me is full red brown reverse better than average rb reverse with a solid red brown obverse


usually this coin the date comes lower grade and with worn dies and brown and heavy worn dies i might add this is usually proved by heavy flow lines and missing hair and reverse details combined with the effect on the reverse where the legend goes around the edge of the coin where the letters start to bleed into the edge and also the outside rims of the coin where the denticals are start to get mushy and disappear but of course the lustre usually looks great due to this die wear but


this hurts its visual appeal to specialists in the large cent field as it would be considered a late die state coin


and of course can still be a good coin but still lacking in some qualities and sometimes a coin might be well struck early die state but not have any red and the surface quality along with marks poor lustre and stains spots verdgrius leaves much to be desired


the ultimate so to speak is an early die state red coin in a technically gem grade but for me those just ALMOST DO NOT EXIST


usually these large cents dated 1838 do not come with gem surfaces combined with an early die state and lustre along with nice red brown surfaces


this current coin that i have seen in person and mark posted a scan on here is a really uncommon exception to the rule


first and foremost it is on the obverse a close to EDS ever so slight die rust the reverse even closser to EDS with almost impreceptible die rust



and along with monster lustre in person technically superb gem surfaces no spots stains carbon and fully alive red brown surfaces this coin has got it all which is highly unusual what makes this coin really appealling to a specialist is the again early die state or EDS


to sum it up


EYE APPEAL thumbsup2.gif

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat lustre 893applaud-thumb.gif

really cloud9.gif sharp strike

technical superb gem grade/surface quality flamed.gif

and the icing on the cake close to EDS


the coin in person has better than great cartwheel lustre and is much more lighter and redder and extremely vibrant in person



michael shy.gif



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Quite beautiful Mark, and I don't think I've seen one like it. The "silohuette" effect around the devises with the lighter colored copper is quite remarkable, and I can see why it got a "star". Not be a copper afficiando, I'm not quite sure why it didn't get an RB designation. What are your thoughts?

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Michael certainly was thorough in his description! Agree w Irish Mike re I prefer old copper.


What I'd really like to do is to line this coin up with a 38 Tom Reynolds has (or used to have) that's a RB PC 6. Tom's coin is 70-80% RD, but I didn't want to sell several family members to buy it. It was IMO the nicest coin in his case when I saw it.


Mark has a good eye for copper (we go back a ways on this subject). What I like about the coin is the consistency of its luster, amount of RD, and the subtle merging of the RD & BN on both obverse and reverse. Many Large & Half Cents have some red that abruptly changes to pools of BN, or one side of the coin being 70-80% RD & the other side having no RD at all.


The other plus about this coin is that there are no contact marks on the devices - the critical areas for grading - of the coin. As Michael pointed out, while I usually prefer a fully struck coin, you just aren't going to find it on old copper on anything but early die state strikes.


The mint typically minted old copper coins until the die 'died.' For some dates, like 1855, while I have seen a good 20 or 30 Large & Half Cents in Unc., fully struck coins simply are not to be found.


This coin to me seems to be a 'liner' re its color designation. I have an 1820 N-13 (Randall Hoard) Large Cent in 5 BN whose amount of RD is comparable to this one. You seem to need 25% or more RD to have a lock on the RB designation these days.


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thanks guys i learned lots!


elcon let me ask you how much was the asking price tom reynolds had on the pc ms 66 rb 1838? i am guessing 14k??


also do you have a photo of it we could see on here? could you contact tom and ask him if he kept a photo of this coin?





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He wanted something like 2X sheet or better, and at that price range, I thought it was a bit excessive. It may have been a "presentation piece," as IMO it was the nicest coin in his display. He had this coin at least 6 months ago or longer, so I don't know its whereabouts.

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Thanks for bringing this to the top, Michael, I don't know how I repeatedly missed it.


To me, this is an example of what copper should look like, but unfortunately nearly never does. The surfaces are a beautiful, even satin with terrific frost. The surface blemishes, stains and spots that one nearly always finds on older copper are delightfully missing from this coin and the even, mellowed color looks like it has never been touched. Assuming the intensity of the coloration is correct, I would have graded it as an RB. The mark at 11:00 is certainly distracting, however, this may be only the way the light caught it and not indicative of the severity of the hit. The stars and edge appear to be a little mushy from 11:00 to 1:00 on the obverse and the corresponding area on the reverse. Other than that, though, this is about as smooth and well struck a coin from this era that I can remember seeing.


I like the coin very much and think that the smooth color gradation that has no spots, in combination with the superior strike, is the key to the piece.

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tomb thanks!! for the great report you sum things up well


""I like the coin very much and think that the smooth color gradation that has no spots, in combination with the superior strike, is the key to the piece""


""this is about as smooth and well struck a coin from this era that I can remember seeing.""




the mark on the obverse at 11 pm is less obvious in person sight seen

i guess its the way the light hits it in the photo





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A very near superb coin Mark! The pic does look predominantly brown with hints of red around the devices. Like everyone has said about the strike and condition, a coin that leaves little room for upgrading!

Someone mentiomed Tom Reynolds, see attachment, here's a product of his. It took him a couple of years to find one that I'd like and for $125. This coin has a little rust in the left field but the VG detail is what sold me. 27_laughing.gif, heck, I couldn't afford much more.


And Mark, thanks for shareing that coin with us. This one could go into that NGC Coin Gallery I keep dreaming about! wink.gif




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