The Wells Fargo Hoard .. How did this happen?
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190 posts in this topic

I have a note that says that the size of the Gillio Wells Fargo Hoard may have been as large as 150,000 coins (over 7x the oft-cited number). 

Does anybody recall seeing that anywhere ?  I am sure it is speculation, I am just trying to remember where I read it. :|  Or if I was reading about the 1983 MTB Hoard and inadvertently thought "WF Hoard" by mistake.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 4/5/2022 at 10:17 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

may have been as large as 150,000 coins

I've been studying up on this Hoard and the best I can find is 9,900 to 10,000 coins.  Several articles and I cannot guarantee their accuracy.

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On 4/5/2022 at 12:02 PM, Alex in PA. said:

I've been studying up on this Hoard and the best I can find is 9,900 to 10,000 coins.  Several articles and I cannot guarantee their accuracy.

It is pretty much certain that 19,900 coins were submitted to the TPGs.  So I am 99.99% sure that the WF Hoard is that size.

If that was the first submission, then there could have been other coins (including non-Saints and maybe non-gold coins) that were secretly disbursed elsewhere though it would be difficult to submit a large hoard to the TPGs and keep it a secret, not have dealers find out, etc.

I think that 150,000 theoretical figure is for the 1983 MTB Hoard which was about 50,000 gold coins.  Might have even been from something Roger or someone else posted in the RWB Saints Thread.  I've never read anywhere that the Gillio WF Hoard was not 100% of what the oft-cited 19,900 coins amounts to.  Gillio is still around, nobody has ever suggested (certainly he hasn't) that there were other coins. 

OTOH, the records for the 1983 MTB Hoard got destroyed and there was never a final accurate accounting from MTB or Stack's, to my knowledge. 

I think I just got my hoards confused. xD

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 4/5/2022 at 12:02 PM, Alex in PA. said:

I've been studying up on this Hoard and the best I can find is 9,900 to 10,000 coins.  Several articles and I cannot guarantee their accuracy.

I have some good info on the WF Hoard earlier in this thread, including from the DL website.

Other details are in Bower's Double Eagles and Roger's Saints books.  Pretty much the same thing.  As Roger has said, for whatever reason, Gillio and any other parties have not divulged more details regarding the hoard even though it is coming up on 30 years since it was found and market forces and marketing can no longer be a concern.

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"The Best One" is up for sale over at GC.  It is the ONLY MS-69 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle...in fact, I wonder how many coins pre-1950 are able to get that grade ?

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1132876/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-Nevada-Gold-The-Best-One-PCGS-MS-69

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Alex, just wanted to make sure you re-found this thread.  It's got lots of information on The Wells Fargo Hoard.

There may be other posts on The WF Hoard in the much longer RWB Saints Book thread. (thumbsu

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As in some other "special label" coins and groups of coins, divulging the truth can easily poke a large hole in the mystique and lore so carefully built in the past.

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Posted (edited)

Well, here is my 'theory' or W.A.G. as one might call it.  1.  No one living today knows exactly who owned this 'Hoard' or where this amount of coins came from.  I believe, in nother source, RWB mentioned Europe.  2.  Now, no one living today can tell us the 'exact' distribution of the Merkers Mine Hoard of NAZI loot.  The are records 'missing', lost, destroyed, etc. with a closing statement that after some was returned to Allied coutries the 'remainder' was dispersed to 'Displaced Persons'.  Sure it was bcause someone entered that statement into the record.

Edited by Alex in PA.
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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2022 at 12:28 PM, Alex in PA. said:

1.  No one living today knows exactly who owned this 'Hoard' or where this amount of coins came from.  I believe, in nother source, RWB mentioned Europe. 

That MIGHT be true, Alex.  We don't know with 100% certainty.  

Ron Gillio might know but he hasn't talked yet.  But it's logical to assume it did NOT come from Europe because the quality of the coins would indicate South/Central American origin (if not Mexico) as these DEs tended to not move as much, get bagmarks, etc.

On 5/13/2022 at 12:28 PM, Alex in PA. said:

2.  Now, no one living today can tell us the 'exact' distribution of the Merkers Mine Hoard of NAZI loot.  The are records 'missing', lost, destroyed, etc. with a closing statement that after some was returned to Allied coutries the 'remainder' was dispersed to 'Displaced Persons'.  Sure it was bcause someone entered that statement into the record.

I'm not as familiar with the Merkers Mind Hoard as I should be.  So I won't interject here.  I think Roger has much more knowledge and of course he has a few paragraphs on the MMH in his Saints book.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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Wrong on the Merkers Mine. The Germans kept excellent records and almost everything in the mint got back to the rightful owners, or their families. Exceptions were boxes of personal items such as rings and jewelry, many of whose owners were murdered.

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