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I went to a local coin show in my town

17 posts in this topic

I went to a local coin show in my town, Osaka, Japan.

There were as many as 5 dealers there smirk.gif, I didn't find any decent U.S coins(no I didn't expect from the first time) so I picked up this coin instead. VERY common and cheap, but kinda cute laugh.gif

589a8b94723ad_347199-124521251312540124723.jpg.459bbe58491bfcccfb495871179718e5.jpg

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Hi toyonakataro,

 

I know nothing about these coins, so everything that follows is stolen directly from the Krause. It looks most like A "Bu" KM16 without a date but struck from 1837-1854. Catalog values are VG=$10.00, F=$17.50, VF=$25.00, XF=$30.00. How to grade? haven't a clue but I'd guess VF-XF for yours. I think prices are usually stronger in Japan than America.

 

Obverse:

347201-%26%2312452%3B%26%2312513%3B%26%2312540%3B%26%2312472%3B%204.jpg

Reverse:

347199-%26%2312452%3B%26%2312513%3B%26%2312540%3B%26%2312472%3B%203.jpg

 

With a bit of luck Roy/Satootoko will wander by, he's quite knowledgeable about Japanese coins and a nice guy too.

 

Very cool, don't see many rectangular coins around!

-JamminJ

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Hi JamminJ

Thanks for your comments on my new coin.

I either don't know how to grade this coin but I think it's UNC because the dealer told me so...lolwink.gif

The dealer also told be, that many of these coins are stored in original paper rolls and it's very common to see them in UNC condition. But he also told me that mine must be dipped.

This coin is supposed to be struck in late Edo period(1859-1868) and the quality is poor compared to U.S coins made in the same era...the edge is irregular and the shape is not uniformed.

He also had some UNC. Meiji "Bu" (1868-1869)coins....he said they are from original rolls and undipped. Those had very nice frosty luster, but the price was nearly X10 higher than mine.

He adviced me to read/study more about Japanese coins before I buy expensive one wink.gif

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I either don't know how to grade this coin but I think it's UNC because the dealer told me so...lolwink.gif

The dealer also told be, that many of these coins are stored in original paper rolls and it's very common to see them in UNC condition. But he also told me that mine must be dipped.

I've always found it hard to tell wear from a weak strike on older and crudely produced coins even in person (not that I'm all that great now893scratchchin-thumb.gif) . And from a scan its darn near impossible, so you and the dealer may very well be right.

 

He adviced me to read/study more about Japanese coins before I buy expensive one wink.gif

Sounds like good advice to me!

 

Enjoy it, an I hope you'll come back and post any new acquisistions!

-JamminJ

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I either don't know how to grade this coin but I think it's UNC because the dealer told me so...lolwink.gif

The dealer also told be, that many of these coins are stored in original paper rolls and it's very common to see them in UNC condition. But he also told me that mine must be dipped.

He adviced me to read/study more about Japanese coins before I buy expensive one wink.gif

 

The dealer told you it was likely dipped. He warned you about buying his more expensive coins before you read up on them. From those two statements we know he was not a US dealer. smirk.gif

 

The coin looks uncirculated from the photo or at the very least a high grade AU. Of course that opinion is coming from someone who is taking a guess as to what the coin should look like as an unc.

 

When you can't figure out what exactly a foreign coin is, do what I do and sent it to NGC (or ANACS) and let them figure it out for you. grin.gif It's a cheap way to learn a little info about your coins - like what it actually is, not to mention the grade.

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The dealer told you it was likely dipped. He warned you about buying his more expensive coins before you read up on them. From those two statements we know he was not a US dealer. smirk.gif

 

sign-funnypost.gif

 

-JamminJ

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Well, most Japanese dealers love to rip off wink.gif So I was surprised to see an honest dealer, but he was very old and might want to educate "young" wink.gif collector.

 

Do you think NGC/ANACS will slab this coin? I doubt it due to it's odd shape...it won't fit in their holder.

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Do you think NGC/ANACS will slab this coin? I doubt it due to it's odd shape...it won't fit in their holder.

 

I don't know how big it is, but if it will fit in the slab them both seem to be willing to slab them. I've seen other non-round coins slabbed by them, so I don't know why this one would be any more different.

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Well, most Japanese dealers love to rip off So I was surprised to see an honest dealer, but he was very old and might want to educate "young" collector.

So not that different from the US after all.893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Do you think NGC/ANACS will slab this coin? I doubt it due to it's odd shape...it won't fit in their holder.

No clue about ANACs but I think NGC will slab a square or rectangular coin. I just sent this coin off for NGC certification via the Official Message Board Ambasador (gmarguli) express service:

346632-4a.jpg

 

He's submitted many, many world coins and didn't think there'd be a problem. Why not post this question in the "Ask NGC" forum to get a definitice answer?

 

-JamminJ

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I don't know how big it is, but if it will fit in the slab them both seem to be willing to slab them. I've seen other non-round coins slabbed by them, so I don't know why this one would be any more different

 

Why not post this question in the "Ask NGC" forum to get a definitice answer?

 

Thanks for advice. I'll ask NGC first then and if they will slab it, I think I'm going to send it along with a few Japanese coins....I'm gradually getting interested in coins from my country.

 

JamminJ-that's a cool looking coin. Could you fill me in on that coin?

 

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JamminJ-that's a cool looking coin. Could you fill me in on that coin?

I'd love to!

 

The coin is a sixth of a thaler issued by the Archbishopric of Salzburg in 1658. The round design on a square planchet is called a "klippe" or occasionally "klipper." The guy on the front of the coins is St. Rupert, the first bishop and patron saint of Salzburg, and the reverse features the coat of arms. The obverse legend translates as "SANCTVS RVDBERTVS EPS SALISB" = "Saint Rupert Bishop of Salsburg" and the reverse "GVIDOBALDVS DG AR EPS SALSE AP L" = "Guidobald, by the Grace of God, Arch Bishop of Salzburg, Legate of the Apostolic See." Guidobald was archbishop in 1658.

 

Back in those days the archbishop exercised secular power within his domain but had to defer to the wishes of his secular Lord, the Holy Roman Emperor, for foreign affairs, warmaking and some tax and legal issues but otherwise was left to his own devices. In religious matters he reported directly to the pope.

 

The coin is about and inch and a half on each side and quite thin. According to my catalog they're valued at $35 in VG, $70 in F, VF $135 and $225 in XF. I bought this one last July at the ANA convention in Baltimore and paid just shy of XF money. I'd like to see this coin in an XF40 holder. 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

 

-JamminJ

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With a bit of luck Roy/Satootoko will wander by, he's quite knowledgeable about Japanese coins

Well, I wandered by, but my knowledge of pre-Meiji Japanese coins is pretty slim. Putting information from the 2004 JNDA catalog with the information Toyosan put in his intial posts, I think the coin was accurately represented to him is an Ansei Ichi Bu Gin (translation: 1859-68, the final era of the Tokugawa Shogunate before the Meiji Restoration gave governing power back to the Emperor, 1 "bu" silver), Krause C#16a. The JNDA pictures of the Tempo (C#16), Ansei (C#16a) and Meiji (C#16b) coins are very similar and the specifications are almost identical. The Ansei is nominally 8.63g, the other two are nominally 8.66g, but a 30 miligram differential is pretty insignificant. JammnJ's obverse/reverse designation matches both the JNDA catalog and Krause, so I'm sure it's correct. Jacobs & Vermeule's Japanese Coinage only pictures the reverse sides, but does have some explanation of the slightly different calligraphy that distinguishes the varieties, JNDA gives values for "Ue" (Top), "Naka" (Middle) and "a" (Bottom) grades, all of which are significantly higher than my 3d Ed. Krause shows. An XF Ansei is $27.50 per Krause, but $50 or more per JNDA. I think Toyo's is probably a high end "Naka" by the Japanese grading standards, and an XF/AU by American standards. Either way, it's a nice piece, and I'm glad to see my tomodachi at least drifting toward the darkside!

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He also had some UNC. Meiji "Bu" (1868-1869)coins....he said they are from original rolls and undipped. Those had very nice frosty luster, but the price was nearly X10 higher than mine.

 

I'd like to see what original "rolls" of bu look like. I'd love to get a photo of one before the rollsare all broken up.

 

A few Long Beach shows ago I saw a dealer with a big bowl full of ichibu gin for $20 each, and they all looked UNC.

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Shiroh-sama

I haven't seen original roll of "bu" coins either. I'll attend a local show again next month and look for it. If I could find a roll, I'll take a picture of it. But dealer said they usualy open the rolls before they sell because rolls are too expensive for most collectors....so please don't expect too much.

 

I paid more than $40 for mine according to today's yen\doller rate.....I always pay too much wink.gif

 

By the way, I find it very tough to collect raw Japanese coins because many of them are professionaly tooled and I've also hered there are many counterfeits....I'll stick with slabs wink.gif

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