Need a little help on this graded Morgan VAM...Did they get it wrong?

[Jakeblue]

Sent this 1882 O in for a grade and attribution because I thought it was a VAM-4 Recessed Early Die State. It returned as AU53 VAM 4 O/S Recessed, but not having the EDS attribution. Now, I had looked over the info at www.vamworld.com for this before I submitted it. As I read it, I was pretty sure it had all the checks for the EDS: Low, thin diagonal "crossbar" with a triangle on top, freckled eagle wings on the reverse, and the angled down but straight gouge lines inside of the ear. I used a 10X loupe to identify the marks. I have posted some pics, but I cannot crop them anymore before it just becomes too blurry. Aside from the pics, did I mis-interpret what constitutes the EDS?

 

[cpm9ball]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that NGC (or PCGS for that matter) include die state on the insert. I've looked at tens of thousands of graded VAM's, and I don't recall ever seeing one with the die state included on the insert. If you are thinking that EDS, MDS or LDS should be treated the same as "First Releases" (NGC) or "First Strike" (PCGS), it is not.

 

I might suggest that if you have any questions about NGC procedures in the future that you contact them directly, either by phone or on "Ask NGC". Quite often, we see questions put to the members, here, when the person posing the question would be better served getting it "straight from the horse's mouth".

 

Chris

[DWLange]

NGC does designate the EDS of those VAMs illustrated as such in the Top 100 book. I can't tell from the photos whether your coin is EDS; it requires a close-up of the mintmark.

[k-dog-migration]

NGC does designate the EDS of those VAMs illustrated as such in the Top 100 book. I can't tell from the photos whether your coin is EDS; it requires a close-up of the mintmark.

 

Will NGC automatically indicate this on the holder if it meets the EDS the way they will do with PL, DPL, FBL, etc....or would the submitter need to point it out on the submission form???

[DWLange]

A raw coin submitted for grading will not receive a VAM designation unless the submitter includes the VarietyPlus fee of $7. For a coin already NGC graded, the variety can be added under Designation Review at $10, which includes the cost of reholdering.

[k-dog-migration]

A raw coin submitted for grading will not receive a VAM designation unless the submitter includes the VarietyPlus fee of $7. For a coin already NGC graded, the variety can be added under Designation Review at $10, which includes the cost of reholdering.

 

I understand that part...what I am asking is...in this particular case, after paying for the variety...would the submitter have to specifically state that the Vam is EDS....or would NGC automatically give that if it was in fact verified to be EDS. I may have not asked that clearly enough. Sorry!

 

Shawn

 

[cpm9ball]

NGC does designate the EDS of those VAMs illustrated as such in the Top 100 book. I can't tell from the photos whether your coin is EDS; it requires a close-up of the mintmark.

 

Thanks, David! I learned something new.

 

Chris

[Jakeblue]

I appreciate the responses. I was hoping that someone could answer if I interpreted what constitutes a VAM-4 EDS for that year. What I understand is that for the coin to be the EDS, it must have the attibutes of the freckled reverse, die gouges inside of the ear and a thin diagonal crossbar (s) with a "triangle" on top. Yes?

 

I will try to take some more close-up shots. Pretty tough.

 

I can see all three attributes, clearly, under a 10x loupe; although the "triangle" is a bit questionable under the loupe.

[prudden]

I see the speckling and the S under the O but I can't make out the die gouges on the ear. I supposed you checked the doubling in the date.Doesn't matter,it's at least the O/S recessed.

According to Vamworld the speckling should be the main criteria.Also the recessed bar is another indicator of EDS. It also looks to me like the ear gouges are in different places on all three O/S VAM's. I'm confused as to why NGC didn't add either LDS or EDS. An earlier post said you should call NGC and find out. It may have been a clerical error.

[Jakeblue]

I see the speckling and the S under the O but I can't make out the die gouges on the ear. I supposed you checked the doubling in the date.Doesn't matter,it's at least the O/S recessed.

According to Vamworld the speckling should be the main criteria.Also the recessed bar is another indicator of EDS. It also looks to me like the ear gouges are in different places on all three O/S VAM's. I'm confused as to why NGC didn't add either LDS or EDS. An earlier post said you should call NGC and find out. It may have been a clerical error.

 

Thanks, that is my assessment. I wish I could show the dies gouges in the ear, they are verbatim to the pics on vamworld. I am at a loss as to why the EDS or LDS was not designated. Vamworld states that the EDS is ultra rare, so if they do not see it very often, they that is why it was probably missed. I will be re-submitting with a letter to the grader explaining I think the coin was not properly attributed.