1889 CC Morgan authentic and grade?

[mtnstyne]

I am new to collecting Morgans so I was wondering if anyone could tell by these photos if you think this coin is authentic or if there is some sort of telling feature that it may be a copy. Also, what grade would you give it if it turns out to be authentic? Thanks, great forums!

 

Deryk

 

[bsshog40]

Well first off welcome to the forum deryk. You may want to wait for others to chime in here with more knowledge but my frist impression by the pics is Authentic, but this coin looks to have been polished to me. I could be wrong so please do not take my post with negative feelings.

[James_OldeTowne]

This appears to be either a heavily altered coin or a struck counterfeit. I would stay far away from it. The details grade would be around AU if genuine, but at that level, you are playing with fire if you are not buying a certified coin, or an uncertified coin from someone you trust. Avoid!

[mtnstyne]

thanks, I was leary from the get go...

[Coindude]

This appears to be either a heavily altered coin or a struck counterfeit. I would stay far away from it. The details grade would be around AU if genuine, but at that level, you are playing with fire if you are not buying a certified coin, or an uncertified coin from someone you trust. Avoid!

I definitely have to agree with James. AT to boot.

[WoodenJefferson]

Wow, this year is uber rare for the Morgan dollar series, for some reason, this one has a gut jerk reaction to it, so that says something right there. If it is a copy, it’s a danged good one…something about the eyebrow near the bridge of the nose just seems off a bit…perhaps the camera angle, polishing, artificial toning…dunno?

 

Like the others are saying, stay away. If you already bought it and has a return privilege, show it to a knowledgeable collector who knows a lot about Morgans, it could save you some big bucks.

 

Welcome.

 

[BillJones]

The only thing I can say for sure about this coin is that the color is not natural. At least it's not natural if the photo is an accurate display of the coin's appearance. The coin appears to be genuine, but once more the photo makes it hard to say that for sure.

 

One person mentioned that the coin looks like it has been polished. That might be the case, but one of the characteristics of this date is that Mint State or near Mint State examples often have Proof-Like surfaces.

 

Overall I would not advise you to buy this date unless it has been certified by PCGS or NGC. If you can’t afford “no problem” example, NCS can be an alternative. If you own the piece certification would be highly recommended.

 

[dean1345]

BTW welcome to the board. If you don't mind, What is the dealer or collector asking for this 1889 CC? These as many other key date coins are a target for countefeiting. Could you take a closeup photo of the reverse "CC"?

 

Dean

[jgrinz]

Its an AT counterfeit in my mind all the "O"'s look WRONG

 

[cpm9ball]

First, welcome to the neighborhood, Deryk!

 

Now, if this coin is authentic and not doctored, then why is the "King of Carson City" not in a slab? Even in AU, it's at least a 4-figure coin. Don't play with fire and you won't get burned.

 

Chris

[mtnstyne]

Thanks all for the welcomes and advice.

 

I found the coin for sale online on craigslist by happenstance the other day and the seller sent me these pics.

 

He didn't even have it listed by the year, just listed as need money, selling silver dollar collection.

 

Anyway, it did seem too good to be true...it was $600 for this coin and a 1882 CC.

[James_OldeTowne]

Thanks all for the welcomes and advice.

 

I found the coin for sale online on craigslist by happenstance the other day and the seller sent me these pics.

 

He didn't even have it listed by the year, just listed as need money, selling silver dollar collection.

 

Anyway, it did seem too good to be true...it was $600 for this coin and a 1882 CC.

Given those circumstances - definitely a scam! If it were me, I would report this scammer to the proper authorities. He is selling counterfeit coins as genuine, and that is illegal. Please don't let this scumbag get away with it!

[BillJones]

A price of $600 for the two coins does not pass the "smell test:" This is a scam, and you should pass.

[WoodenJefferson]

I have a suspicion that perhaps this so-called-bogus Morgan was in a pocket when launderd with "Run Away"

 

And that my friend is exactly what you need to do...

 

 

 

 

[RI AL]

The polish job really turns me off. I am far from an expert on this series. Someone mentioned the "O"s being off a bit. The O in "ONE" especially looks a bit off to me. Another thing, I checked out several different pictures and it seems that the word "OF" is somewhat bigger than the other letters. I didn't find this on other dates and pictures I checked.

 

Here are a few points from "Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection", pp. 264, 265 (I find the fiorst edition more useful than the second). It states that the 1889 CC is frequently altered. Regarding the CC mintmark, "...many alterations display mintmarks that are glued to the surface and show a seam where the mintmark joins the field."

 

"One characteristic of the genuine coin is a raised die line in Miss Liberty's cap, between the banner that bears the word LIBERTY and the leaf in the cap". This isn't on ALL the genuine 1889 CC coins, but if it is present, then it probably is genuine. Also, "die cracks permeate all 1889 CC dollars", but not all of them have a die crack. "A faint die crack often begins at the point of the bust and extends through the 4 digits of the date. Later die states show continuing cracks through the stars around the obverse with another die crack extending from 12:00 into the cap".

 

I don't see any die cracks...but that doesn't mean it may not be genuine. I sure would like to take my microscope and peek at the CC to see if it flows into the surface or shows signs of being added.

 

If it were me, I would pass on this coin. Too many "maybes" for my taste...and the surfaces are ugly.

[Mark T]

Thanks all for the welcomes and advice.

 

I found the coin for sale online on craigslist by happenstance the other day and the seller sent me these pics.

 

He didn't even have it listed by the year, just listed as need money, selling silver dollar collection.

 

Anyway, it did seem too good to be true...it was $600 for this coin and a 1882 CC.

 

Counterfeit all the way. A 1889-CC is a rare Morgan . There is so much fake stuff coming out of China now. They are even counterfeiting common date stuff. I agree you need to report this guy to the proper Authorities.

[just-john]

think it said copy if you look 6 stars to the right of the date thats why it was buffed and toned to hide or take off the word copy

[jgrinz]

think it said copy if you look 6 stars to the right of the date thats why it was buffed and toned to hide or take off the word copy

 

Good point - kinda looks chiselled there

[WoodenJefferson]

 

Here's an obvious "replica" from a Chinese seller on e-bay. They can be made of 90% coin silver and can also

be ordered without the "replica" stamped on the reverse.

 

Just about all "copy" counterstamps have been located on the reverse of the bogus coins that I have seen.

 

This fake looks nothing like the OP's coin in question, but it's just one variety of what's floating around out there.