What's up with these grades?

[pendragon1998]

I don't usually do these sorts of posts, but I've been looking around for a nice 1982 copper cent in MS66RD to add to the ol' collection. These coins seem...well...I'll let you give me your opinions. Pics are the seller's.

 

NGC Zinc MS67 RD ($300 OBO)

 

 

NGC Zinc MS66 RD

 

 

[MarkFeld]

What is your issue with the grades of those two coins?

[pendragon1998]

Well, with the gash on his lapel and the mark on his chin, I have trouble calling that 67 a 67. As for the MS66 coin, between the scratch (I think) on his arm, the ding on the column, and the zinc bubbling, again, it just seems over graded. IMHO.

[MunkyMan95]

I think the top coin is an MS67. It may not be a PQ MS67, but it's a 67 IMO.

 

The second coin may be MS66, but the zinc bubbling is definitely a turnoff. I wouldn't buy it at any grade, based on that alone.

[bsshog40]

I think the first one just falls into the 67 mark. The air bubbles are mint caused and does not effect the grad. I do have to agree tho' that I would not want that one.

[pendragon1998]

Mm..maybe my standards are just too high. I think, though, that the gash on the lapel should be enough to drop that one to a MS66. I get what you're saying about the bubbling being 'as struck' - and in a way, it's an interesting feature of the type - but it looks terrible. That second coin also has what looks like a scratch on the lower arm and a hit through an entire column. Doesn't prominence of hits factor into the grade? I wouldn't give it above a 65, but what do I know anyway? Again, all IMHO.

[BankNote1]

I don't usually do these sorts of posts, but I've been looking around for a nice 1982 copper cent in MS66RD to add to the ol' collection. These coins seem...well...I'll let you give me your opinions. Pics are the seller's.

 

If you are looking for a copper cent why are you posting pictures of zinc cents? Also you can't accurately grade a coin from photos in the first place. One thing I have found about mint red cents is they tend to turn bad in their holder. It can be a gem MS67 one day and the next day a cent with a big ole ugly spot!

[Oldtrader3]

Both coins have some plating bubbles. I can live with the first coin as a MS67 because they can have a couple of hits on each side for the MS67 grade. The first coin's color is decent and solid. The second coin is a bad picture with very bubbled surfaces which technically won't disqualify the grade do not do any thing for me and what I would expect for a MS66 cent.

 

I could live with the first coin although the gash on the face is distracting and the price is high for that coin. I would pass on both, I think, because there are other 1982 coins out there that would be potentially better coins available for the money with a little more looking.

[physics-fan3.14]

I don't have a problem with the top one at 67 at all. I think it is the correct grade. The so called gash, if you are looking at the same thing I am looking at, is actually part of the design (notice it is present on the other one too, albeit not very strongly.) It is sort of a weird mark, and I've wondered why its there several times, but it is part of the design.

 

The second one, however, is just ugly. While it is true that the defects are mint made and should not affect the grade, this should only apply up to a certain extent. When we start talking about 66 and higher, the eye appeal of these blemishes should start to play an increasingly large part in the grade. Would you want a 70 with these mintmade blemishes? I think not! I cannot call this coin any higher than a 65.

[James_OldeTowne]

Both of these coins seem appropriately graded to me. MS-67 is three points away from perfection, therefore a coin so graded should have subtle grade detriments.

[pendragon1998]

If you are looking for a copper cent why are you posting pictures of zinc cents? Also you can't accurately grade a coin from photos in the first place.

 

I posted pics of zincolns because they happened to come up while I was doing my other search and I thought they were interesting.

 

While I would grant that you can't grade 100% accurately from images, I'd say that you can frequently get a decent idea about the grade from good images, particularly if you have experience taking photos yourself. These aren't the best images, but they're better than most on eBay.

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with the top one at 67 at all. I think it is the correct grade. The so called gash, if you are looking at the same thing I am looking at, is actually part of the design (notice it is present on the other one too, albeit not very strongly.) It is sort of a weird mark, and I've wondered why its there several times, but it is part of the design.

 

 

The second one, however, is just ugly. While it is true that the defects are mint made and should not affect the grade, this should only apply up to a certain extent. When we start talking about 66 and higher, the eye appeal of these blemishes should start to play an increasingly large part in the grade. Would you want a 70 with these mintmade blemishes? I think not! I cannot call this coin any higher than a 65.

 

D'oh! You're absolutely right - sorry. I had forgotten about that particular mark. It is a rather odd detail. Okay, I'll call the top one a low end 67 (due to the mark on the chin, which is not a design feature), but I still wouldn't buy it because of the chin hit.

 

I agree about the second coin. I believe strike problems and any other blemishes which originate at the mint should factor into higher grade coins' grades.

 

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

One thing to keep in mind is that a coin can be accurately graded and that for various reasons, different people still don't like them. Sometimes it's difficult to separate not liking something about a coin from the question of whether it is accurately graded or not.

[pendragon1998]

Fair point.

[braddick]

Fair point.

 

 

Come on. I'd call it at least a VG08 point.

[MarkFeld]

Fair point.

 

 

Come on. I'd call it at least a VG08 point.

I thought it was fine or very fine, myself. ;)Seriously, though, one of the toughest things about being a grader was assigning what I believed to be accurate grades to coins I didn't like. Being a dealer/buyer, as opposed to a grader, when I see a coin I don't like, I need not worry about what grade to assign it. And if I see a problem coin, I don't have to determine/note precisely what's wrong with it - I have the freedom to just move on to something else that I do like.

[Dwaine]

Both of these coins are mine and I do apologize for the poor photo quality. They are the best I can do with my camera. I believe the first coin is a 67 and I have been looking at the coin and the photo makes the marks look big.

 

If it doesn't sell then I will probably send it and another 67 that I have to Bob or Bruce to get a better photo.

[pendragon1998]

I didn't realize that the seller was a forum member. Hope we didn't offend.

 

Honestly, I don't think the pics are as bad as was implied. I mean, they're not Mark Goodman good - but how many are? Mine sure aren't. Regarding the MS67 - the mark on the chin aside, it's a nice coin (my brain fart about the coat detail was already noted).

[coinman1794]

I'm wondering if that chin mark was not a planchet flaw or struck-in mark? To be honest, it seesm rather prominent to be a bag mark and still grade MS67.

[Dwaine]

Not offended and I debated about responded for fear of SPAM. I was glad to hear some discussion on these coins. I saw that MS66 coins were priced at 125 so I went a little over double that since there are only 12 graded as 68 and not sure how many are graded by PCGS.

[just-john]

doesn't 100 Roll Bag of 5000 (Brilliant Uncirculated) 1982 go for about $200.00 ?? You guy's are just kidding around right

[James_OldeTowne]

Seriously, though, one of the toughest things about being a grader was assigning what I believed to be accurate grades to coins I didn't like.

Mark, that is an excellent point. It explains why I think every Morgan dollar in existence grades no better than XF-40 !

[RGT]

Seriously, though, one of the toughest things about being a grader was assigning what I believed to be accurate grades to coins I didn't like.

Mark, that is an excellent point. It explains why I think every Morgan dollar in existence grades no better than XF-40 !

 

Sorry James. You've already come out of the closet and no one believes you. You need to sell all of that early stuff you use as a cover and embrace your true love, the Morgan Dollar.