1859 O Seated Liberty Dollars - Grade, Mint Marks, etc.

[rbrown4]

Here is another coin that for which I have two, one was graded by NGC as AU-55 and the other Cleaned MS-60 Details by ANACS.

 

Three Questions.

1. Which is which

2. Note the different positions of the O mint mark on each, I have found some references to "high/low"mint marks for Seated Liberty coins but can not pinpoint the facts for this year. Can anyone explain the difference in these two placement shown and any effect on desirability of the coin?

3. Which coin would you rather have in your collection, or would it be both due to the different mint mark placements?

 

I have posted the obverses and reverses adjacent to each other for hopefully easier comparison, they are in the order of #1 and #2

 

Thanks,

 

Rey

 

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

I will guess that number one is the NGC, AU55 coin and number two is the ANACS, cleaned MS60 details.

[physics-fan3.14]

If I had to guess, I would say that #1 is the AU-55, but I can't really see the cleaning on #2. Similar lighting conditions for the pictures would make a side by side comparison much easier.

[tonidanzawillpay]

the first coin looks like the cleaned one to me..

[rbrown4]

The two coins were imaged immediately after each other in the same exact position under lights and camera. The first coin is the AU-55 (NGC), and the second one ANACS MS 60 Details.

 

Does anyone have any information regarding the locations of the mint marks?

 

Thanks,

 

Rey

[Oldtrader3]

The first coin looked AU and the second coin had no wear but did not have much mint luster. That was the giveaway.

 

New Orleans coins are famous for using different sized "O" punches, punching O over horizontal O MM's, punching MM's in different places, high MM's and low MM's. Each die was hand punched with the "O" MM. They normally received used dies from the Philadelphia Mint and had to squeeze as many coins out of each die as they could. That is why most "O" MM coins are poorly struck, especially 1879-1885 Morgan's where they had to produce many coins per die.

[fishfinder]

Tough to see cleaning on the second coin(being a rook I've seen too many) except the edge has that brushed-off look. The dies were made at the Philadelphia Mint and prior to 1985 the mint marks placed on them was a hand operation done prior to shipping them out to the other mints. For that reason, size and positioning may vary depending on where and how deeply the punches were impressed.

[BillJones]

I think that coin #1 is the AU. I see some surfaces that I don't like in the area of the first three stars on coin #2, so I'm guessing that is the one that was graded "cleaned MS-60" I don't care for the area around "UNITED" either.

[rbrown4]

Number 1 is the AU and number 2 is the cleaned coin. Any reason to hold onto the cleaned coin even with a different mint mark position? Opinions welcome.

 

Thanks for all of the input.

 

Rey

[BillJones]

Number 1 is the AU and number 2 is the cleaned coin. Any reason to hold onto the cleaned coin even with a different mint mark position? Opinions welcome.

 

Thanks for all of the input.

 

Rey

The best reason to keep the cleaned coin is if you would like have it around to show the difference in mint mark placement. Also, if you will lose money on the sale of it, you might some day get your money back. I made a mistake on an 1872 dollar many years ago. It had been recolored, and I bought it not realizing that. Still the coin had better look to it (more eye appeal) than many of the so-called "original" coins. After owning it for a long time I sold it to a dealer for a 20% profit. I told him it had been recolored, and he acknowledged that. Still for a collector who was looking to fill a hole in a Dansco type album with an attractive coin for a lot less money, it was not a bad deal.

[rbrown4]

Bill,

 

After going through this exercise which I originally though was comparing a circulated versus uncirculated coin I do think I will hang on to both for the reason you mention. Perhaps there is a reason my father purchased both, although I do not think he realized the second was cleaned in those days. Plus what I have found is so interesting is years ago, there was not a lot of attention paid to varieties etc., at least no with my father.

 

Thanks

 

Rey

[BillJones]

A great many Seated Dollars have been cleaned over the years. Part of the reason why some of the "original" pieces that get graded have poor eye appeal is that they were dipped or cleaned years ago, and re-toned to an ugly color. Really attractive examples of these coins are scarce in all grades from Unc. to circulated.

 

The question is, has the surface been altered to a great extent by the cleaning? In the case of your coin the unnatural areas that I noted would indicate that. I think that you will be happy with your decision to keep the coin. Seated dollars are much scarcer than Morgan dollars, and I see a bright future for them given their scarcity.

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