An Interview with JOHN ALBANESE by Maurice Rosen 2 2

[CHABSENTIA]

Since this is the case then it seems that JA is saying that his graders are better

Bologna. PCGS and NGC could screen their coins too in the same manner if they cared to.

 

Why just take a sentence out my whole paragraph and then try to disassemble it?

I quoted the whole area where JA said that "graders are not perfect and that they all make mistakes". My question was two fold.

 

1. What need is there for CAC if all the graders make mistakes?Does that mean that we also have to have another such entity as CAC to minimize their mistakes?

2. or does JA feel that his graders are better or put another way less prone to mistakes?

 

Everybody knows that you you are a big backer of CAC but how about responding to the whole thing instead of one sentence?

[MikeInFL]

In almost any case I can think of, you'll still pay less for an A or B of MS6x than a C or D of MS6x+1.

 

Think about it.

 

Agreed. However, can the same be said for today's market on the sell side? I think not, and that's one of the real areas of value-add to a collector like me.

[CHABSENTIA]

Bill, You said John Albanese abandoned 2 grading companies. Some day you will find out why he left both, then you`ll understand John a lot better.

 

I would like to know the reason/s for it. Some people that support CAC are also critical of Taylor and the ICG/ ANACS deal.

 

 

1. Why did John Albanese leave PCGS and NGC?

2 As a Founder and a Co Founder then he should have been in charge and able to direct to his satisfaction. If not then what makes anybody think the same thing won't happen at CAC?

3.Under what conditions did he leave? Was it Voluntary?

4. When he left did he agree not to start up another Grading company in a certain time frame etc.

5. ETC

[Doogy]

 

I enjoyed the interview, good stuff!

 

 

Doug

[MarkFeld]

Since this is the case then it seems that JA is saying that his graders are better

Bologna. PCGS and NGC could screen their coins too in the same manner if they cared to.

 

Why just take a sentence out my whole paragraph and then try to disassemble it?

I quoted the whole area where JA said that "graders are not perfect and that they all make mistakes". My question was two fold.

 

1. What need is there for CAC if all the graders make mistakes?Does that mean that we also have to have another such entity as CAC to minimize their mistakes?

2. or does JA feel that his graders are better or put another way less prone to mistakes?

 

Everybody knows that you you are a big backer of CAC but how about responding to the whole thing instead of one sentence?

Even without reiterating your entire paragraph, I didn't take your out of context in refuting it.

 

In answer to your two (actually three) questions:

 

1) As has already been stated, there is no "need" for CAC - some people prefer to make use of their services, while others don't care about it. The fact that graders make mistakes doesn't mean the service isn't of any benefit. If perfect grading were required for a service to be worth utilizing, we wouldn't have any grading companies.

 

2) No, an imperfect CAC obviously doesn't mean "we also have to have another such entity as CAC to minimize their mistakes".

 

3) Ask John A. if he feels CAC is less prone to mistakes, but in the mean time, I haven't seen any comment from him indicating he feels that way. I feel that way, however, if for no other reason, because of a much lower volume of coins to assess than NGC and PCGS grade on a monthly basis. And, because CAC is screening coins that have already been screened by experts.

[physics-fan3.14]

Right, my mistake. All coins not stickered are not dogs!

 

I still think you've got the "nots" in the wrong place. It should be "Not all coins not stickered are dogs!"

 

Bill, I agree with your last post regarding institutional investors. They are llooking to do what the famous economist John Maynard Keynes described as "building castles in the sky." They are trying to find another sucker who is willing to pay a higher price than they paid, regardless of whether or not its actually worth that. Just like is going on with oil right now - the supply and demand should value oil around $75 to $80, but speculators have driven up the price to $145 (at this time) in hopes of a tidy profit.

[mommam17]

Yes that`s what I mean. THANK YOU. Not all coins not stickered are dogs.

[Doogy]

 

Hi guys!

 

If i may offer another viewpoint to consider.........

 

Most of you are aware that Americans are not the first to collect coins, grade coins and attempt to weed out counterfeits. With this in mind, Mr. Albanese is not the first to be another set of expert eyes, on top of other expert eyes, if you will. Europeans have been offering this service for a long time, most notably (and recently) by Mr. Robert Matthews in Great Britain. here is an excerpt from his home page:

 

"I am Robert Matthews C.Chem., MRSC, a former Queen's Assay Master at the Royal Mint. I have over thirty years experience of examining coins and acting as an expert witness on counterfeit coins. My recent publications include papers on the manufacture of the proof sovereign, and a number on counterfeiting.

 

The aim of this website is to assist in the battle against the counterfeiting of coins. To achieve this aim the site provides information on genuine British milled coins, on the science of examining coins and on counterfeit coins of all types. A new edition of the Counterfeit Coin Newsletter is posted on this site every six months. The latest edition of the Newsletter is at: Counterfeit Coin Newsletter No.9 December 2007. Access to the other information on the site is via the Coin Information page, whose link is on the left. Any information on counterfeit coins and corrections to any errors on the site are welcome.

 

I also offer a coin authentication service for British milled coins. To undertake this I have the modern equipment required for coin examination. This includes an analytical balance with a density kit, a stereomicroscope, a Sigmatest conductivity meter, digital callipers, digital photographic equipment, modern IT equipment and crucially a well-stocked library of suitable reference material. I can easily access outside resources such as x-ray surface analysis, electron microscopy and spectroscopy and suitable literature and reference materials."

 

Now, these is going above-and-beyond CAC's careful examination through a slab,and is meant to give well heeled and even normal collectors a great deal of confidence in their purchase.

 

My point is this; CAC is not setting any new precedent, it has been around for even longer than Mr. Matthews has offered his service. JA's just happens to be the one in the US that is getting attention, and is a service that one can either choose to embrace as an aid to collecting, or choose not to utilize. Either way, there is really no argument in my mind as to whether or not having other sources of expert analysis is helpful.

 

 

Doug

 

 

PS: if one would like to see an example of Mr. Matthew's expert anaylsis, check out this example he did for a modest coin. Note the historical context he provides, plus the extensive tests that can be run like he utilized: Conductivity, Density, and an X-ray spectrometer surface analysis. (results for this coin near the bottom of the page) Pretty cool stuff!

 

click here

 

his homepage: click here

 

[MAULEMALL]

That is absolutely too cool.. Thanks for the link.

[CHABSENTIA]

The fact that many people are not going to avail themselves of CAC does not mean that CAC is not going to have any effect on Coin Collecting. It has already been noticed by many that perhaps the TPGs have tightened up their grading because of CAC. I do not have any evidence that this is the case but let us say that it is the case.

 

Who is to say that they haven't tightened too much? Now we have CAC being the sole arbiter of whether or not the TPGs are too tight or just right or a guarantee for the grade etc.Can you or anybody else state with 100% certainity that CAC is more correct or too strict or just right.

 

Then we have a situation where there has been talk of going to a 100 point grading scale. Albanese has already increased it by the A B and C.Do all the coins then graded on a 70 point scale have oe evaluated on the new 100 point scale?

 

Of course there is eventually going to have to be another layer to make sure that CAC has it right.You don't think that if CAC has a sticker denoting an upgrade that people aren't going to send their coin back to the TPG that originally certified it. What happens when the TPG refuses to upgrade it?

 

Meanwhile we still have another layer that is prone to errors watching over another Entity that is also prone to errors,

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Then we have a situation where there has been talk of going to a 100 point grading scale. Albanese has already increased it by the A B and C

Once again, you are leaping to unfounded conclusions. I heard of coins being given an A, B or C rating as long as 20 years ago.

[MikeInFL]

The fact that many people are not going to avail themselves of CAC does not mean that CAC is not going to have any effect on Coin Collecting. It has already been noticed by many that perhaps the TPGs have tightened up their grading because of CAC. I do not have any evidence that this is the case but let us say that it is the case.

 

Who is to say that they haven't tightened too much? Now we have CAC being the sole arbiter of whether or not the TPGs are too tight or just right or a guarantee for the grade etc.Can you or anybody else state with 100% certainity that CAC is more correct or too strict or just right.

 

Then we have a situation where there has been talk of going to a 100 point grading scale. Albanese has already increased it by the A B and C.Do all the coins then graded on a 70 point scale have oe evaluated on the new 100 point scale?

 

Of course there is eventually going to have to be another layer to make sure that CAC has it right.You don't think that if CAC has a sticker denoting an upgrade that people aren't going to send their coin back to the TPG that originally certified it. What happens when the TPG refuses to upgrade it?

 

Meanwhile we still have another layer that is prone to errors watching over another Entity that is also prone to errors,

 

 

Using your logic -- if all grading entities are prone to errors, why do we need any of them? The answer to that is we need them because they provide value -- the TPGs with their authenticity guarantee and slab, the CAC for the potential value-add it can provide. But really, we only need them if we need them, and nobody is forced to use them.

 

To find the answer to your question (What happens when the TPG refuses to upgrade it), I would look at an example that's already happening in the market today -- what happens when you crack an NGC 65 coin, send it to PCGS and you get a 64? The submitter realizes either PCGS made a mistake, NGC did, or (gasp) they grade to different standards....Mike

 

p.s. the CAC isn't the sole arbiter of anything -- it's the still TPGs that are giving the grades, not the CAC, and if they change their grading, shouldn't the TPGs be responsible for either being too loose to begin with or too tight now?

[gmarguli]

Then we have a situation where there has been talk of going to a 100 point grading scale. Albanese has already increased it by the A B and C

Once again, you are leaping to unfounded conclusions. I heard of coins being given an A, B or C rating as long as 20 years ago.

 

A, B, & C aren't good enough. We need +/- qualifiers added to these qualifiers to separate the low end A coins from the average (PQ) A coins, from the high end A coins. These low end A coins are bringing down the market for the average (PQ) and high end A coins.

[BillJones]

Bill, You said John Albanese abandoned 2 grading companies. Some day you will find out why he left both, then you`ll understand John a lot better.

 

Since so many people here seem to think that Mr. Albanese is the greatest grader in the history of numismatics and the ultimate savior of the industry from over grading why shouldn’t we concerned about his exit from the two firms he started? If he had remained with at least one of those firms perhaps there would not be a need for his new company now. Right now his firm poses a threat to the value of my holdings. I want to spend my coin budget on coins, not CAC services.

 

I buy coins that meet my standards. If a coin with a CAC sticker and is offered at a fair price, I’ll buy it. If a coin without a CAC sticker meets my expectations and is priced fairly, I’ll buy that. I will not pay premiums for CAC stickers.

 

 

 

[mommam17]

Bill- It`s your word, abandoned, that is troubling. Obviously, you don`t know what happened.

[BillJones]

Bill- It`s your word, abandoned, that is troubling. Obviously, you don`t know what happened.

 

I guess you are an insider who knows the story. I just know that his operation is posing a threat to the value of my colleciton.

 

To be honest with you Mr. Albanese reminds me of football coach Bill Parcells. Parcells is good coach, but not a great coach IMO because he has a history of building teams and then abandoning them a time when just a little more effort on his part would have made those teams better. Just ask New England Patriot fans what they think the Bill Parcells, and I imagine that there are New York Giant fans who are less than thrilled with him also.

 

Mr. Albanese has a history moving on for whatever reason. And now he's formed a company that potentially could cost people money for no good reason. Those of us who have studied grading and have gone out of our way to buy nice coins for key areas of our collections are not thrilled with the double certification situation.

 

[mommam17]

Insider?? No, not me. I found out why he left 1 TPC by reading it in a book. The other is well known and you can ask around and find out.

[BillJones]

Insider?? No, not me. I found out why he left 1 TPC by reading it in a book. The other is well known and you can ask around and find out.

 

Well since the reasons are public knowedge, why are you playing games? Please enlighten us.

[physics-fan3.14]

Insider?? No, not me. I found out why he left 1 TPC by reading it in a book. The other is well known and you can ask around and find out.

 

Well since the reasons are public knowedge, why are you playing games? Please enlighten us.

 

Indeed, quit being such a tease...

[mommam17]

Sorry, you`ll have to find out on your own. I`m not getting sued, Thank you.

[MAULEMALL]

Insider?? No, not me. I found out why he left 1 TPC by reading it in a book. The other is well known and you can ask around and find out.

 

Well since the reasons are public knowedge, why are you playing games? Please enlighten us.

 

Indeed, quit being such a tease...

[gmarguli]

Sorry, you`ll have to find out on your own. I`m not getting sued, Thank you.

 

Then what you're saying is that you have no real idea, but have heard a rumor. You aren't going to get sued for posting the facts about what happened - especially when these facts are public knowledge according to you.

[mommam17]

Sorry Greg. Read the book, it`s there.

[MAULEMALL]

Sorry Greg. Read the book, it`s there.

Well that puts everything you have and will post into a different light..

[BillJones]

Sorry Greg. Read the book, it`s there.

Well that puts everything you have and will post into a different light..

 

I think that Momman17’s posts on this subject rank up there with Richard Nixon's "secret plan" to end the Vietnam War. The bottom line for Nixon was (1) he didn't really really have a plan, and (2) whatever piece of a plan he did have, which was "Viet-tee-mi-za-sion" would not have washed with the public.

 

Could this be a secret book without a title?

 

[MarkFeld]

Since so many people here seem to think that Mr. Albanese is the greatest grader in the history of numismatics and the ultimate savior of the industry from over grading why shouldn’t we concerned about his exit from the two firms he started?

Bill, please cite just a single source/example for your above statement. I bet you can't, because you have exaggerated what others have said in order to make your point.

[physics-fan3.14]

Sorry, you`ll have to find out on your own. I`m not getting sued, Thank you.

 

The worst that could possibly happen would be if this were the PCGS boards and you might get bammed. But this is NGC, so the likelihood of even that happening is remotely small, pretty much nil. At least tell us the name of this secret book so someone with cajones can find it and tell us what the deal was.

[mommam17]

Hi all. It is not a secret book. It was written by Scott Travers, "How to make money in coins right now". John Albanese, David Hall, and Jesse Lipka are interviewed.

[BillJones]

Since so many people here seem to think that Mr. Albanese is the greatest grader in the history of numismatics and the ultimate savior of the industry from over grading why shouldn’t we concerned about his exit from the two firms he started?

Bill, please cite just a single source/example for your above statement. I bet you can't, because you have exaggerated what others have said in order to make your point.

 

I guess you have not bothered to read one post after another in this string and elsewhere that indicate that Mr. Albanese can do no wrong. I’ve never seen such glowing remarks made about anyone in this business, including some of the great authors who given us some wonderful books. Read the messages; don’t yell at me. Mr. Albanese almost looks like a cult figure.

 

It's clear that if CAC succeeds his company will invalidate the PCGS and NGC grades on great many expensive coins if those pieces are not presented to and approved by his minions. It is disappointing that you are unable or unwilling to grasp that concept. When someone reaches into other people’s pocketbooks don’t expect those who are harmed financially to thank him for it.

 

[BillJones]

Hi all. It is not a secret book. It was written by Scott Travers, "How to make money in coins right now". John Albanese, David Hall, and Jesse Lipka are interviewed.

 

Thank you for providing that bit of information. It was like pulling teeth, but finally we now know the source.