Are "Complete" sets recognized somehow?

[Revenant]

When you reach 100% on a registry set and it becomes "complete" by NGCs definition do you get any kind of nod from C.S? I'm talking about an email or something else, some kind of recognition of the fact that you've "finished" the set, it doesn't have to be major.

[Jwillie33-migration]

I recently completed my Roosie set and received nothing from NGC.

[jgrinz]

NO they dont

 

They have enough work to do as it is dont you think

 

[RareSov]

Sounds like a nice little addition, to make it all official and would really make some people happy.

[Revenant]

NO they dont

 

They have enough work to do as it is dont you think

 

It was merely a point of curiosity.

 

[BillJones]

I think that one should get some extra points for a complete set.

[Revenant]

That would be cool. Do you think it would be better to go with a fixed point bonus for completion or a bonus that's a % of the coin point totals?

[jackson64]

that's a good idea....I think a fixed point bonus in relation to each set( some sets are worth hundreds of thousands of points and some sets only thousands)...although a percent may work as well....

[Revenant]

that's a good idea....I think a fixed point bonus in relation to each set( some sets are worth hundreds of thousands of points and some sets only thousands)...although a percent may work as well....

 

That would be a neat compromise. I have to say that I like the % basis but your idea could definitely work too.

[CHABSENTIA]

If somebody got extra points then they would have to be minor. I recently sent in a raw coin which is a Morgan 1891 O. It was graded as an MS62. The coin has a valuation of about $300.00 and carries 312 Registry points.

 

 

If a person has say a one per date Registry and completed a set and they averaged 135 points and came out to a total of 2600 points and received 300 points fro completion then they would receive over 10% of the total and the equivalent of one 1891 O.

 

Then the people with all the dates or the people that just had the CC Morgan Registry would complain because they weren't treated fairly etc.

 

It would seem to me that it just gets down to points. If I am number 101 in a Registry and the person in palce 100 does not have a complete set and is ahead of me by 20 points and I have a complete set and I get 25 points for it and move up to Postion # 100 then this does not necessarily mean I have a better set.

[jackson64]

I don't think that is a good illustration but I do see your point....I think a percent reward for a complete set works better, that way if someone completes a set in 65..then he would get a greater reward than someone who completes a set in 63.......

 

I think that if you have a complete set of 50 coins and the guy in front of you in the rankings has 10 super high grade coins ...then I do believe that your "set" is better...I like the idea of bonus points for completion...

 

I also think the % should be pretty low regardless..maybe only 2-3%..that way if someone completes a 10,000 point set..he would only get a modest 200-300 points....

[CHABSENTIA]

I did a check on the Morgan Dollars- one per year as this is the Registry were I am now.

 

With the exception of the 1893 and 1895 the lowest grade up to VF with the exception of certain Vams then they get 3 points for each of 26 dates or 78 points. for the 1893 and 1895 in the worst conditions you would get a total of 536 points. This would make a total of 614 points for a complete set.

 

This would put one in the 160 spot 15 more points would presently put you in the 159 spot and 59 more points would put you in the #158 spot. The next jump to the #158 spot would be over 100 points which is not practible as it wouls take almpost 230 points to get from 160 to 157 for completing a set.

 

 

To go from 160 to 158 it would take 10% of the total of 614 when the set was completed.Lets take the person on #1 and #2 . The person in number 1 positionmaybe lacks one coin or one grade. The guy in #2 gets enough points for completing his set. This now gives him more points than #1.Does number 2 deserve to get #1 place because he completes his set and only for that reason?

 

I am presently building two sets in this area.One will be the best coins that I can afford and the other will be of lesser grades.As an example one of the coins that I recently had graded at NGC is one that turned out to be 1891 O MS 62 which carries 312 points. I also have an 1891 P that hasn't been graded yet. If the

1891 P comes back less than 312 then it will go into #1 Registry and the other will go into # 2 Registry or vice versa.

 

 

Neither is complete at this point. Why should somebody else get a large number of points for completing a set and might have not taken that much care for just completing a set?

 

So maybe a small number of points for completing a set but not enough fro any real difference and only in certain situations.

[jackson64]

the guy in #2 wouldn't get the #1 spot only because he completed his set...he would already have a spectacular set of coins to be that high and yes, if 2% pushes him ahead then I do think he deserves consideration for having completed it...

 

Obviously his stay at #1 would be short-lived...the guy he passed would, at the least, buy a temporary hole filler to get his #1 spot back...and maybe incentive to finish his set..

[CHABSENTIA]

But he got there only because he completed a set. The other example in which 26 of the coins received a value if three points each or 78 points is more glaring.

 

If this individual received say 50 points for completing the set then he would receive almost double the number of points for 26/28 points of the set.

 

If NGC then said that there would only be an award of 50 points for the completion of a set if the poibts were of a certain minimum value of say 2000 points then at least some of the people that had sets of less than 2000 would complain.If they said that the awarding of points could not be a bigger percentage of such and such a factor and that the majority of the coins of certain types had to be of at least an AU Quality then the people outside of these parameters would compalin because they were not fairly treated.

 

 

I was the one that fought for the inclusion of the 20th Anniversary Reverse Eagle in the Amercican Eagle proof Set. I am sure that there are people that may have decreased in position because they did not have one in ther set.They lost postion because of the absence of a certain coin and not because they don't have a complete set.

 

I do not have a complete set because I do not have a 1995W. I weigh the few thousand points against the cost of several thousand dollars for it which I would rather spend on other coins.Several years from now my Reverse Proof PF70 might be worth several thousand dollars and people entering the Registry for the first time will have to make that same decision of completing the set.

[Revenant]

So Chab, the point you're bringing up is that this is just going to start fights. Don't you think the society members are a little more mature than that?

[jgrinz]

The only thing I think they do do ( hehehe he said 'do do' ) is that if you have pictures and descriptions, they do give you the extra position for that, to differentiate a number one postition to a number two position that does not have them.

 

I also supported the reverse proof in the proof registry as it is SUPPOSED to be there even though my set was 'complete' without it.

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Attaining number one set status for a complete but low point score set would be unlikely, even with inclusion of a small % point bonus for completion. The law of averages(survival of the fitest) would knock you out of fist place by another collector with a partial but high grade set. IMHO, the issue of being first with a low grade set in this dog-eat-dog registry environment is academic. I have had many registry sets which were complete or nearly complete, that were knocked out of 1st place over time.

[jackson64]

sorry chab, but you must have misunderstood me...I said that a 2% completion bonus might work...your examples keep using numbers like 50 points for a 78 point set..or 60%+...I agree, that would be way out of proportion...but a small 2% bonus as I suggested would only account for 1.56 points (rounded up to 2 points)..would make it an even 80 points...and doubtful that it would jostle the set leaders around.....

[TheMightyDuke]

So, if I am not mistaken, some agree that a 'bonus' percentage should be given for completing a set. I have two small issues with this. First, 'asking' for MORE points after finishing a set would seem to me that one is now buying coins for the competition, not for the enjoyment. Secondly, and this is where I see a bonus % as being a BAD thing....if a complete set of MS65 Morgans gets, say, a 1 1/2% bonus, and a complete set of MS63 Morgans gets a 3/4% bonus, how fair is that? You are basically rewarding a person who can afford to buy MS65 coins....or, on the flip side, you are penalizing a person who can only afford to by MS63 coins. By sheer definition, an MS65 set IS going to have more points than an MS63 set...but why on earth reward someone that can afford more expensive coins (or, penalize someone because all they can afford is MS63 coins)? Coin collecting is a hobby, not a competition. Those that want MORE points than they have EARNED, after completing a set, are not true collectors, in my eyes. Completing ANY set is an accomplishment....I dont see why one should 'earn' more points simply be completing a set.

[Revenant]

...but why on earth reward someone that can afford more expensive coins (or, penalize someone because all they can afford is MS63 coins)? Coin collecting is a hobby, not a competition. Those that want MORE points than they have EARNED, after completing a set, are not true collectors, in my eyes. Completing ANY set is an accomplishment....

 

I agree. But what you were describing is not really what we are talking about.

 

All the same, when I started this thread it wasn't about a point bonus. I wanted to know if NGC did anything (even as simple as an automated e-mail) to say "good for you" for completing a set. The response was "no" and then it gradually morphed into the current discussion.

[TheMightyDuke]

I think a percent reward for a complete set works better, that way if someone completes a set in 65..then he would get a greater reward than someone who completes a set in 63.......

 

Not sure how to use the quote and identify who I am quoting, but its Jackson64 I am quoting (and I am not tossing you under the bus, Jackson64). I am just using your post as an example that what I was describing is what others, who posted before me, were talking about.

 

 

Now, in regard to your question, Revenant, why SHOULD one get something for completing a set. Look at how many sets qualify for awards...wait, awards...isnt that something that one gets for a #1 set? Should any set but the #1 set get recognized? Who remembers the loser of the Super Bowl, the loser of the World Series.....better yet, who remembers the team that the team that lost the Super Bowl beat... See where I am coming from? Being #1 has always had its glory....in sports, #2 is first loser....tomorrow, after the Patriots hammer the Giants, do you think Tom Coughlin is going to get a call from the President of the U.S. (well, with the current president, it could happen due to dialing a wrong number). In the registry game, completing a set IS an accomplishment that IS held in high regard within the collecting brethren.....even completing a 'Low Ball' set is an accomplishment (and I am not a fan at all of a low ball set, but gotta give completion its due). Check here, or ATS....when someone finally completes a set, it gets posted....congrats come from many, many members. Do we really need more to feel good about completing a set? Its like giving out plaques/ribbons/trophies that say 'Participant'. When I completed my SBA set (and its a VERY short set, but high grade examples are hard to come by, and not alot of people like the coin in general), I was PSYCHED, and I still got props from many, even those that didnt even appreciate the design....Frankies are a relatively short set also, and the feeling of accomplishment for completing a larger set should come from within, and when your peers give you an 'Atta Boy', that makes it special. Props from your peers should be enough glory (and rightly so) for completing a set, unless you have a #1 set...THEN you should be looking for a little somethin' somethin' extra......not knocking the question, as it is a good one. Just remember, the Patriots and Giants will both earn rings after tomorrow....BUT, the Patriots ring will say 2007 Super Bowl Champs, while the Giants rings will say 2007 NFC Champs.

[jackson64]

My points keep getting misconstrued...first of all: I am neither a proponent or opponent of giving a small 2% "bonus" in points for a completed set. The % would be equal for every single set in the registry..not based on grade, value, denomination etc etc( the only reason a 65 set would get a higher bonus over a 63 set is because it was worth more points in the first place)...Also, and I am speaking from a personal perspective and experience...collecting is about the love of the hobby and shouldn't be about points...but I like making the top 10 in a set ( it adds enjoyment to my collecting) and one of the biggest thrills as a coin collector ( again for me) is adding in that final coin to complete the set !! Set completion is a rush... a little harmless bonus would only be the cherry on top of a hot fudge sundae...

[TheMightyDuke]

Jackson64, you start your post off with this: My points keep getting misconstrued...first of all: I am neither a proponent or opponent of giving a small 2% "bonus" in points for a completed set. The % would be equal for every single set in the registry..not based on grade, value, denomination etc etc( the only reason a 65 set would get a higher bonus over a 63 set is because it was worth more points in the first place) Does a 65 set get more BONUS points for completion than a 63 set? I seem to think you are saying yes....so, you are now trying to put more room from a higher graded set from a lower graded set...isnt that what the registry is all about? Doesnt a higher graded set get more points than a lower graded set already? And now, you want to see a larger spread between those sets? Lets look at the rest of your post:

 

1st:Also, and I am speaking from a personal perspective and experience...collecting is about the love of the hobby and shouldn't be about points Shouldnt be about the points...isnt that what this thread was started for? For an opinion on whether 'bonus' points should be given for completed sets? It sounds to me that you ARE a proponent of bonus points.

 

2:I like making the top 10 in a set ( it adds enjoyment to my collecting) and one of the biggest thrills as a coin collector ( again for me) is adding in that final coin to complete the set !! Set completion is a rush Spoken like a true collector, 'set completion is a rush'...it IS....THAT is your bonus.

 

3: a little harmless bonus would only be the cherry on top of a hot fudge sundae...

 

There are no harmless bonus points.....first off, if you have a #3 set, and the 'harmless bonus points' becomes reality, you are going to need to upgrade your set MORE to get to #1, because #1 has put a bit more room between his/her set and yours....more uprgade, means more money you have to spend. Realistically, it means you would need to spend more money to catch the #1 set WITH the 'harmless bonus points' than WITHOUT the 'harmless bonus points'......now, are they really harmless points?

 

 

You try to convince that you are a collector, and collect for the sheer joy of it, but you 'more points because you completed a set'. That sounds more competition-like, to me, instead of hobby-like. How many categories are there? ALOT....it takes alot of time just to reward the #1 sets......its just not feasible to 'congratulate' each complete set...unless the IT people set up some sort of form email that would automatically be sent to you once you completed a set....just like a form letter. What is so special about a form letter? I would feel a bigger sense of accomplishment with props from my other forum members, as THEY are the ONLY ones that knows what it takes to build/complete a set....regardless of series, it IS tough to complete one, unless you want to buy any old coin to throw in the set, with NO intent of upgrading when you can find one. There are those collectors that sometimes take YEARS finding that 'right' coin for their collection. I dont think THEY are concerned about bonus points for simply completing a set.

 

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against you personally (this is in NO way an attack), as you know we havent chatted before. I am relatively new...new to this forum, not the hobby. I just dont see any good coming from 'bonus points' for completing a set.

[CHABSENTIA]

I have to agree with the Mighty Duke to some extent.The end result of giving the points seems to be based on being a participant and some sets are short.

 

So the Person that completes sets and has a total of say 40,000 points and complete sets would get 800 points at 2%. With 40,000 points you are also in the top 25%. I would rather get acknowlegement for being in the top 25% then 80 points.

 

 

The second question would be what if the same person has a duplicate set of Morgans. Both sets are in a Registry for one per date and both are MS 65. Do they get points for completing a duplicate set?

 

 

What happens if a person gets that 2% for completing a set and then sells or gets rid of one of the coins? Are extra points then taken away?

 

How about a set which is a lot less expensive to complete as opposed to a set which is really expensive to complete?

 

It seems to me to be too many "what ifs", and a different treatment for amny different reasons.

 

 

Is there going to be some sort of an announcement when somebody completes a set here? A person completes a set that has a total of 3000 points.He gets 60 extra points'.

 

I would rather get the recognition if the 3000 points added to my other points put me in the top 30% etc. If tou look at a Registry set now then you see that there are so many points are needed to get to the next spot.If I look at my Total Points and see that I have 40,000 points then it just means I have 40,000 points. How about a marker that you are in the top 26% and you need x number of points to be in the top 25% etc.

 

 

[jackson64]

then you both should know that I removed both of my #1 sets before the registry deadline this year..I did this so that the #2 sets owners could enjoy getting an award ( a little paper cerificate which would've sat in my drawer gathering dust with the others).....

 

The thrill is the PERSONAL challenge of building a top-quality set....

 

Finally, I hate to keep reiterrating this to those who may be comprehensioned challenged...my initial point about the 65 set being worth more bonus compared to a 63 set was in rebuttal to Chab's remark that a small bonus would propel a lesser set past a higher quality set....it would not!!!

 

The example was a 65 Morgan set..probably worth 200,000 points...an MS63 Morgan set would be worth 100,000...if the 63 set was complete a 2% bonus would not have any affect on "rankings"..making it worth only 102,000...probably wouldn't even move a single slot....like I said, a token....

 

Maybe just highlighting the 100% in a seperate color instead of points would work better...revenant started this thread as just a question on a better way to recognize set completions...the small bonus was just a possible suggestion...it wasn't meant for me to open myself up to attacks...

 

PS: in the future if I am quoted...please keep it in context....this is not a political arena where we twist each others words out of context to create controversy

[CHABSENTIA]

My point was that extra points alone might carry it above a better set or more closer to it just on the basis of getting extra points for a completion. I have a set of Mint State A.S.E. I was in postion 15 . I am now in 18. Somebody could have put in a better A.S.E in one of the slots. I have not checked it lately but I see my sets every time that I log on here. I suspect the reason is that I have not put any 2008 coins into the 2008 slot. I checked and if I put in a 2008 MS69 that I can purchase on E bAY for $ 26.00 then I will get 143 points which will propel me back up a few numbers. Can't remember if it was the 15 spot again or not.

 

At this point my set will be complete again on this one. If I was to get extra points even of only 2% I would be propelled at least another postion if not more. I will not go to number one or even two but I will be assured of at least number 15 or better again just on the basis of completing the set.

 

 

I hadn't thought of it until you mentioned it but a good idea would be to highlight the completed set in a different color. Also if there were extra points given then one wopuld have to analayze each and every set to see if they got to that postion just on the basis of points or completing a set.. While one can look now and see that a set is such and such a percentage complete they still have to look for it. A color coded set would show off the degree of Completion at the instant.It could also be shown on the first page and any other pages the sets in color codes that are what degree they are completed.

 

This could also be used in conjunction with my earlier point about showing the percentage tier of where one stands in total points. This could also be color coded.

 

I don't hink that anybody is trying to be Political about it. I know that I am not.I just don't feel that points are the answer for somebody completing a Set regardless of the points being given.

[jackson64]

fair enough..someone suggested it and I thought it wasn't exactly a bad idea...and then I ruminated on how it might be workable..

 

I do see problems with the completion % idea which nobody even touched on....

 

for me it would be more satisfying to have my personal page filled with "blue or green highlighted sets" symbolizing completion than getting extra points for them. I actually like the little ribbons (avatars with the year won) next to a set more than I care about the awards...good luck in your ASE set and thanks for the vigorous discussion...

[TheMightyDuke]

I guess we shouldnt argue (we should commend him) with someone that purposely deleted a couple #1 sets just so someone else could know the feeling, the RUSH, of such an accomplishment. THAT is just unheard of in ANY competition...for THAT, I give 2 thumbs up! THAT is being a total gentleman....I dont have to agree with a thing jackson says, but his actions, well, words just about escape me....ATTA BOY!!! Now, about that bonus % you propose.... (just kidding, seriously!)

[CHABSENTIA]

That was really great of you to give somebody else a chance. I On the total points one sees that they are number 900 .Probably not that important but it looks like a large number in the standings. Then you look at them all and see that there are a total of about 3600 in the list so you are actually close to or in the top 25% which I imagine would sound better to some than number 900 and the color coding would be nic and readily available but probably not a big deal here.

 

 

I like the Color coding on the Completion of Sets. Not a big deal on the A.S.E. I have about 25% in the Mint sets as MS70

[CHABSENTIA]

That was really great of you to give somebody else a chance. I On the total points one sees that they are number 900 .Probably not that important but it looks like a large number in the standings. Then you look at them all and see that there are a total of about 3600 in the list so you are actually close to or in the top 25% which I imagine would sound better to some than number 900 and the color coding would be nic and readily available but probably not a big deal here.

 

 

I like the Color coding on the Completion of Sets. Not a big deal on the A.S.E. I have about 25% in the Mint sets as MS70 and the rest are MS69. I got the MS 70 s before all the big Interest and don't see the expense in buiding it up with more. I do need to fill the 2008 slot which will jump me back up again so it is just a matter every year of keeping it updated. If I got extra points for completion then I would get them extra year for completing that one slot when it was updated. The color coding seems good. It would signify completion and give attention to it but what happens with the Moderns such as the .A.S.E when the new year comes and you are one slot from being short of completion?

 

 

Some coins I just keep up to date, I have all the Mint Proof sets from 1968 and the Mint sets from 1970. I just keep getting the sets from the U.S. Mint each year to keep them current but thety are still just in their holders. Same with the State quarters etc.

 

 

I cleaned out a Safe Deposit Box in December and found a Dansco Album with Kennedys I had forgotten and several hundred wheats. Alos well circulated Mercury dimes and rosies. The Kennedys are probably the only chance at value.

 

The High lighted sets would be a nice touch.