CAC dealer poll on Certified Coin Exchange (CCE)

[CHABSENTIA]

I thought it was 90%.As for the CAC controversy you already see some posts arguing that the Grading companies might be undergrading so as to pass muster.

 

This is already bad news and this was mentioned much earlier.If somebody goes to enough trouble to look for and find what they are sure is a Morgan in Raw Mint state 65 and spend accordingly and send it in got grading and it is graded as a MS64 so they can pass CAC muster then how is this a good thing?

[gmarguli]

It seems to me that the majority of honest and hardworking dealers would favor CAC. But I know honest and hardworking dealers who are either neutral toward or against the organization. (And I think the majority sentiment can't be explained away by the the fact that CU owns CCE.) Why?

 

From the dealers I've spoken with, a VAST majority of them thought it was a dumb idea and were against it or neutral about it.

 

Many dealers already have been forced to adjust their grading to conform to that of the TPG when they came into power. Many are disgusted that they cannot sell a nice raw coin because the TPG has turned the collector base into a bunch of mindless insufficiently_thoughtful_persons. Now there is an organization that wants to grade the grading services - literally say "Yep, the TPG got this grade correct". If the CAC succeeds, then the dealers have one more thing that the typical moronic collector will look for. If it fails, it's back to business as usual.

[Houston Investor]

Many gave up trying to retail to the type of moronic collector described above years ago - they just try to "buy it right" and make money when buying from the right kind of seller then flip it on ebay or wholesale. What comes to mind is the guy set up at the show with the big sign "cash paid for coins and currency." You don't think he is there to buy at his price?

[James_OldeTowne]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff

percentage against.

 

Wow, I just checked another poll on how dealers feel about coin collectors. 6 for, 3 neutral, and 67 against!

[MAULEMALL]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff

percentage against.

 

Wow, I just checked another poll on how dealers feel about coin collectors. 6 for, 3 neutral, and 67 against!

[CTcollector1]

I thought it was 90%.As for the CAC controversy you already see some posts arguing that the Grading companies might be undergrading so as to pass muster.

 

This is already bad news and this was mentioned much earlier.If somebody goes to enough trouble to look for and find what they are sure is a Morgan in Raw Mint state 65 and spend accordingly and send it in got grading and it is graded as a MS64 so they can pass CAC muster then how is this a good thing?

 

If you can point me to all these purposely undergraded coins I keep hearing about, I would greatly appreciate it.

[carson city]

It now appears, by the results of the recent vote, that CAC not only has to try and convince the coin collecting hobbists, but also the very Dealers it is focused toward. Looking at the vote totals----Good Luck !

[Dcoin]

At last checked isn't CAC for collectors and not necessarily dealers? On this issue the dealers opinion is secondary.

[Frank Provasek]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

[Tradedollarnut]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

 

So you're saying that because anyone can read who voted which way that PCGS might take retribution against those in favor of CAC? Shocking!

[MarkFeld]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

Or more importantly, perhaps they don't want to risk getting "poofed".

[BillJones]

It seems to me that the majority of honest and hardworking dealers would favor CAC. But I know honest and hardworking dealers who are either neutral toward or against the organization. (And I think the majority sentiment can't be explained away by the the fact that CU owns CCE.) Why?

 

From the dealers I've spoken with, a VAST majority of them thought it was a dumb idea and were against it or neutral about it.

 

Many dealers already have been forced to adjust their grading to conform to that of the TPG when they came into power. Many are disgusted that they cannot sell a nice raw coin because the TPG has turned the collector base into a bunch of mindless insufficiently_thoughtful_persons. Now there is an organization that wants to grade the grading services - literally say "Yep, the TPG got this grade correct". If the CAC succeeds, then the dealers have one more thing that the typical moronic collector will look for. If it fails, it's back to business as usual.

 

As long time collector and part time dealer, I sincerely hope that CAC fails. I have no desire to have to have my collection re-graded, and I think that all of us have spent enough on grading services. We don't need two layers of them.

[IGWT]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

Or more importantly, perhaps they don't want to risk getting "poofed".

Do you really think that dealers -- your colleagues -- are a bunch of scaredy-cats? If it were so, then the safest response to the poll would be no response at all.

[chinook]

The entire concept is tainted---the Fat Lady will soon Sing !!!!!! NGC & PCGS will ultimately have the last laugh.

 

So will ICG and CAC will not even sticker their coins! Do you really need a stickering service to tell you the coin below is solid quality?

 

I dont need a sticker to tell me that this coin is no better than a 64.

[MarkFeld]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

Or more importantly, perhaps they don't want to risk getting "poofed".

Do you really think that dealers -- your colleagues -- are a bunch of scaredy-cats? If it were so, then the safest response to the poll would be no response at all.

I know plenty of large dealers who make fun of and speak very badly about PCGS behind their back. And they keep even legitimate criticisms to themselves because they don't want to chance being on PCGS's bad side. Whether their concerns are justified or not, they feel that could be bad for their business.

 

A non response to the poll would be safe, but it wouldn't look as "good" to PCGS as an anti-CAC one would. However, as TDN indicated previously, we don't know much about the poll, how it was conducted, etc. Under these circumstances, it means nothing to me, just as a strongly pro-CAC poll result would.

[Tradedollarnut]

One of the coin dealers on CCE started a poll to see what dealers (across a wide range) thought of CAC. 5 for - 1 neutral - 32 against. That is a pretty stiff percentage against.

 

Since PCGS owns the Certified Coin Exchange, perhaps dealers don't want to risk losing their trading privileges.

Or more importantly, perhaps they don't want to risk getting "poofed".

Do you really think that dealers -- your colleagues -- are a bunch of scaredy-cats? If it were so, then the safest response to the poll would be no response at all.

 

Exactly. If in favor of CAC - the safest response would be no response at all. If against CAC - the safest response would be in the negative. Kinda skews the numbers, doesn't it?

[carson city]

Seems par for the course, when the numbers don't produce the desired result---attack the process !

[IGWT]

Exactly. If in favor of CAC - the safest response would be no response at all. If against CAC - the safest response would be in the negative. Kinda skews the numbers, doesn't it?

You're looking at it from the perspective of one who has an interest in the outcome. You're forgetting that the nervous nellies also won't want to risk offending CAC. If you were to look at it objectively, you'd see that no answer is the safest answer all the way around. And do you really think that PCGS would make bad things happen to dealers who vote "neutral"?

 

I can't say that I put a lot of stock in the poll. But I can tell you that the results jibe with what a lot of collectors are hearing from dealers. I suppose that doesn't matter much, however, if you've already accomplished what you set out to do.

 

CAC has already had the effect on the marketplace that I was looking for when I initially invested in the concept.

What were your principal goals, how do you know that they have been achieved, and are you going to celebrate with a trip to DisneyWorld?

[Tradedollarnut]

Seems par for the course, when the numbers don't produce the desired result---attack the process !

 

Works for the neocons - who's to argue with success?

[carson city]

Thanks for your continued interest and response.

[Tradedollarnut]

You're forgetting that the nervous nellies also won't want to risk offending CAC.

 

You're kidding, right?

 

And do you really think that PCGS would make bad things happen to dealers who vote "neutral"?

 

Who knows - I never would have expected half the bannings they do on the chatroom on a whim.

 

[Tradedollarnut]

What were your principal goals

 

I don't feel it in the best interests of the numismatic hobby to reveal what I set out to stop. Suffice it to say that the formation of CAC had the desired, and necessary, impact.

 

The nattering nabobs of negativity like CC simply have no clue about how things were.

[goldrarities.com-migration]

"From the dealers I've spoken with, a VAST majority of them thought it was a dumb idea and were against it or neutral about it."

 

 

you are very apparently talking to the wrong dealers-keep trying

 

[gmarguli]

"From the dealers I've spoken with, a VAST majority of them thought it was a dumb idea and were against it or neutral about it."

 

 

you are very apparently talking to the wrong dealers-keep trying

 

OK, give me a list of CAC supporting dealers and I'll ask them and report back a 100% approval rate. I guess that is what you are looking for? Sorry my random sample didn't confirm what you were hoping to hear.

[Tradedollarnut]

I fail to see how relevant it is that a 'dealer' such as Parker would be against the CAC. I do see how relevant it might be if a private and independent poll were taken of the national dealers who typically deal in the types of coins that CAC is creating 'sight unseen' bids on.

 

But the poll would have to be independent, private and focus on those dealers who would actually be affected.

[carson city]

Be careful what you wish for. Sell stupid someplace else, we're all stocked up here---Jack Nicholson "As good as it gets"

[Tradedollarnut]

Sell stupid someplace else, we're all stocked up here

 

That doesn't surprise me in the least...

[carson city]

Thank you for your continued interest---we thought we lost you !

[IGWT]

I do see how relevant it might be if a private and independent poll were taken of the national dealers who typically deal in the types of coins that CAC is creating 'sight unseen' bids on.

 

But the poll would have to be independent, private and focus on those dealers who would actually be affected.

I don't want to be a nattering nabob of negativity -- and I never would have guessed that you're a Spiro Agnew fan -- but that kind of information is generally gathered before making a decision to launch a venture. But you know that.

 

[Tradedollarnut]

but that kind of information is generally gathered before making a decision to launch a venture.

 

Ya think? That's why I don't put any trust into this poll...the results don't match what was verbally [and privately] communicated previously by the dealers that matter.