EagleRJO

On 1/25/2024 at 10:18 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

NGC is the most pickiest grading company out their and if the two or three people that grade these coins thought for a second it was cleaned it would not even be in this holder.. it wouldn't even have a grade.

I see NGC holders with Details - Cleaned all the time.  Which coins have you submitted that came back in a body bag which were just cleaned, and not otherwise damaged.  And I think it's a good thing they look very carefully at coins, including signs of cleaning as that gives me added confidence in the more valuable coins I have in NGC holders.  Sometime I look at coins in the lower tier TPG holders and just shake my head.

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/details-grading/

On 1/25/2024 at 8:52 AM, J P M said:

 

JPM keeps that one for when he has to flip his wife for who takes out the garbage.    

Interesting that you are finding so many with that die scratch.  They must have cranked out quite a lot of them before realizing the scratch was there, or perhaps more likely the way things have been coming out of the mint these day they just didn't care or bother to check.  

Since it's significantly under weight it may be 1/2 of a modern magicians coin, with the obverse milled out to insert a milled obverse from another coin.  Still just damage though.

If the rims were just worn down I would expect to see more wear at other areas.  It looks almost like there wasn't much of a rim to begin with when it was struck, maybe from an undersized blank, or possibly broadstruck.

What is the weight to 0.01g and diameter to 0.1mm?  Also, is the reeding at the edge present?

Why would you be weighing a 1981 cent, and has the scale been calibrated with a known weight.  From the posted weight you are not using a very accurate scale to begin with.

A 1982 copper cent at the high end of the mints' tolerance range weighed with a scale that has a 0.1g accuracy and may easily be out of calibration by 0.1g could simply be reading 3.5g.  You can get a good quality very accurate scale that comes with calibration weights for not that much.

It's not like a deep scratch or gouge where metal is going to clearly pile up on either side, and I can't imagine anything that could end up on the dies which could produce that irregular semicircular shape.

On 1/24/2024 at 12:48 PM, Debwitt said:

double ear ... is that a die cut with his hair?

I don't think it's a double ear or damaged die.  The area behind the ear going down to the neckline just looks like a hit or discolored area.

On 1/24/2024 at 12:48 PM, Debwitt said:

two D mint marks

Maybe you mean the area to the right and slightly higher than the "D" mintmark.  That's not another mintmark and just looks like another hit or discolored area.

Is the scale calibrated with a known weight?  That and the accuracy of the scale may be 0.1g, which is not very accurate for use with coins.  So it could be a 5.00g coin that just reads slightly under on that scale.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:05 AM, Glynn K. said:

it's at least a few microns smaller in diameter

From the photo of the edge you posted it looks like there is a significant difference in the diameters, more than a few microns.  You don't necessarily need calipers to measure the diameter, like you need for measuring the thickness.

I have a measurement app on my phone I can set to mm and just put the coin on the phone to get that.  I have digital inch/mm calipers also and it doesn't come out that much different.  Or I guess you could just use a ruler that has mm, which is probably close enough.

Interesting that you are into tokens as I started adding some "civil war" tokens to my collection not long ago that reference my home state.  If you have some interesting ones you can always start another topic with a few as there are a number of members here that collect them.

On 1/24/2024 at 9:07 AM, J P M said:

It looks to me Eagle the reeding has dissolved a bit also I think this coin is going to show a weight difference when it is all said and done.

I agree that there likely is going to be a weight difference.  However, it doesn't seem possible that both outer cladding layers were completely dissolved by an acid, and yet the reeding on the edge at the more reactive copper core was only slightly effected.  That's why I suspect there may be multiple issues and requested a diameter measurement.

On 1/23/2024 at 4:06 AM, dcarr said:

Nitric acid has the property that it eats away very evenly, preserving the coin's details while making it thinner.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:19 PM, Coinbuf said:

The new photo posted today does show the pebbly surface that I would expect from an acid, but I'd still like a weight.

The new pics do show more of a granular surface indicative of an acid, but what about the coin edge with the reeding intact.  Particularly since the copper core is more reactive to acid, which often results in an "oreo cookie" like appearance from one of my previous posts which isn't present.

On 1/23/2024 at 5:50 PM, Glynn K. said:

Here are two better, I hope, pics:

A little better, but they still get blurry the instant you zoom in.  Were you resting your hand on something like a stack of books when you took the pics?

On 1/21/2024 at 3:48 PM, powermad5000 said:

There are several other threads on the forum here about eBay and asking prices. If you look you will probably find more that are absolutely ridiculous.

The really insidious one I see all the time on eBay is the 2010 Lincoln Presidential dollar coin listed for thousands.  They are worth ... drum roll ,,, $1.00.

Seems to be a popular one with these scam artists, preferably a little beat up to give the appearance of being old, as he is so well known and it has his term of 1861 - 1865 on the obverse, which they usually put in the listing title to give the appearance of being about 160 years old.  Seems to be targeted at older people which really burns my butt.

When I see stuff like that I can usually get them taken down pretty quickly with a short report that has an NGC guide linked.  For others that are not so blatant where it doesn't come down right away there is a topic in the members area where you can post details to have it taken down by NGC with their contacts at eBay, but I don't remember where that is off hand.

On 1/21/2024 at 12:02 PM, Coinbuf said:

But this reply (as well as your acid theory on another thread) is a return to your old misinformation form

Yea, in the other topic it was "molecular copper effervescence" to explain how a solid inner copper layer leached through a solid outer cladding layer.  More than the usual foot-in-mouth MM stuff that has become so common.  So bad someone asked if he had been drinking, at which point I lost my cookies laughing so hard. 

On 1/23/2024 at 2:03 PM, powermad5000 said:

... was the Mint striking anything for foreign countries in 1978 that there would be an odd planchet out on the Mint floor for some reason?

Yes, at least the Centavo coins of various denominations, which is why I asked for a weight and diameter.  I would have to do a deeper dive to see if that was at the Denver mint in addition to Philly where the foreign coin were also usually struck.

On 1/23/2024 at 1:05 PM, Greenstang said:

Instead of five photos of the obverse, please show one of the reverse.

How about one of the obverse and one of the reverse.   

Might be struck thru grease if the reverse isn't worn down to a nub like the obverse.

On 1/23/2024 at 3:03 PM, J P M said:

Die cracks are fun also.

He seems to be having a problem with a runny nose.   

On 1/23/2024 at 2:35 PM, J P M said:

I opened up that roll to try to give you some die stages.

All different coins?  Possible clash from the "We" that started it, which is hard to envision?  And is that just a straight chip in the archway.

My guess is damage from something grabbing the coin edge.  I don't see any fishtailing with detail fadeout progressing towards the edge or a rounded tapering of the  rim.  I also don’t see indications of the Blakesley Effect, but they are not full coin pics.  Really slacking on the coin pics today JP.   

On 1/23/2024 at 7:47 AM, J P M said:

I do not have progressions on the new ones yet

I recall seeing the progression of the coins with the same die crack, if you are talking about the series of coin pics you previously posted, which was interesting.  If you happen to find coins with a progression going from the die clash to various stages of chipped dies I would find that interesting to take a look at.

On 1/23/2024 at 12:42 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Like you, Rob, I love proof sets!

I get all of the modern dollar coin strikes and didn't go full bore on the annual proof mint sets like you did.  I think the proof ASEs would be the only set I really have that is just proofs.  But I canceled my mint subscription for those coins due to the quality tanking.  Oh well, so much for that one.

On 1/23/2024 at 12:42 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I bought six boxes and about $17 each for the sets ... I don’t plan on breaking them up

I assume that's an average price per set, as if I remember correctly you didn't buy them all together.  Some are like few bucks at a thrift store and some of the older ones or more recent extensive ones are a lot more.  The intercept boxes were probably more than most of the individual sets.   

But good plan to keep them in the OGP cases.  I can't count the number of times I have heard people talk about issues with mint sets, and it turns out they broke the sets up and took them out of the cases.

On 1/23/2024 at 8:04 AM, J P M said:

If you have a bad coin in a proof or mint set, you could by the five-coin Whitman holder to put the good ones in. I have coins in proof sets that have fogged and that is where they will stay. It is still safer than the 5 pc set.

What happened to cropping photos.   

On 1/20/2024 at 3:09 AM, EagleRJO said:

I don't think there is any shot it's the result of partial cladding loss or the result of acid damage completely removing cladding on both sides with that pattern and appearance (see attached for appearance of acid damaged coin)

On 1/22/2024 at 8:42 PM, Glynn K. said:

The edge of the 1978 does have reeding all the way around.

Well that shoots down the theory it was exposed to an acid which resulted in the cladding being eaten away, as expected, since an acid bath would also eat away the reeded edge.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:42 PM, Glynn K. said:

... edge compared to regular quarter ... I notice the diameter of the 1978 is a hair shy of the diameter of the regular quarter

Since it seems thinner and has a smaller diameter compared to a regular quarter, without significant acid damage which can cause an "acid shrunk coin", I think there may be a chance it's struck on the wrong planchet, possibly on a foreign coin planchet. Maybe in addition to an accurate weight you could measure the thickness and diameter in millimeters.

It still looks like someone painted or coated the coin, which would be a shame if it's a wrong planchet error since that would pretty much wipe out a lot of any extra value it may have had.  Maybe you could also look to see if any of the discolored area may be flaking off, which appears to be happening.  If the discolored area could be easily removed by say soaking the coin in acetone or something that may save the day if it turns out to be a planchet error.

Also the additional photos you posted were not very helpful as they are out of focus and not cropped (like the attached).  Maybe you could rest your hand on something while taking the pics, and then crop them before posting which improves the resolution they can be viewed at and allows one to zoom in on the coin without it getting blurry right away.

On 1/20/2024 at 10:34 AM, J P M said:

I have been seeing this die chip again and again

Have you been finding them in different rolls, and do you have the progression as that would be interesting to see.

I agree with Kurt that it looks like a clad proof quarter that found its way into circulation.  Those pesky modern clad coins are always trying to get back into circulation where they belong. 

On 1/21/2024 at 11:44 AM, Coinbuf said:

The binders that eagle posted are a good option for mint coins that already come in the plastic capsules

You can also use them for raw coins you put in capsules or slabs.  I use the Lighthouse ENCAP binders for my completed all date/mark/strike BU/PF Presidential and Innovation dollar sets (one Giant/G binder per set).

I put the coins in capsules since they are all gem BU or gem PF grade and was afraid of slide marks with the typical albums used for these.  A little overkill for modern coins, but I really like the way they came out.

I also use them for my all date/mark circulation set of slabbed Morgans (two G binders almost complete), as well as my gold coin collection which I put in after-market slabs (in a gold colored binder of course ).

They are really well made, convenient, and look really nice.  Other than the Morgans and gold coins, which go in a safe or deposit box, I keep them on a bookcase along with the Littleton slide albums I use for sets of modern circulated coins.

It's really easily to just grab one and flip through it occasionally or add a coin.  I like them so much I plan to move my in-progress pre-1930's half dollar slabbed one-per-year date set to the Lighthouse ENCAP binders one of these days also.