EagleRJO

On 1/22/2024 at 7:15 PM, edhalbrook said:

Is there something made that holds a mint set in. The 1960's 1970's envelopes and also the newer silver box sets? I know there is a dansco book that is for mint sets but that's a bit much. 

@Mr.Bill347 initially put his mint set collection in cigar boxes, keeping them in the OGP, and then switched to Intercept Shield storage boxes to better protect them.  A little overkill, but he sleeps better at night.  And if it hasn't been hammered home yet leave the mint sets in the OGP, unless you picked it up for one of the coins to go in a collection you are working on.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:26 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

OK NGC team, hear me out, I would like a service to send in a Mint set for say $25 - $30 and have your professionals do this and send me back my coins in capsules ungraded.  Then work with a reputable coin album company to ensure the capsules you use will fit nicely in the album I purchase from you.

Never going to happen for that price and would end up costing you more than the coins are worth.  And it's still not clear why you are stuck on taking the coins out of the mint set cases or packaging.

And in a very short period of time most collectors feel completely comfortable just ordering whatever capsules and albums they need, and in no time have their coins stored the way they like them.  Even better when you do this as the collection progress instead of waiting until you accumulate a lot of coins to then put in holders.  Been there, done that, have the tee shirt. 

On 1/22/2024 at 2:58 PM, Midwest Dozer said:

i bought it sight unseen so i thought id ask the community their opinion. didnt know it would lead to all this 

I think using correct terminology is important to avoid misunderstandings or confusion, and partially why I wrote the topic pinned at the top of this sub-forum.  In the end a topic with good information on potential pitfalls of trying to clean or conserve a coin which newer collectors really need to understand.

On 1/22/2024 at 11:58 AM, powermad5000 said:

I think you may just be seeing the reflection of light coming off of the plastic bag giving the appearance there is some type of anomaly at the top of the dime.

That may be the case as there are some reflections off the plastic, but maybe @Edwardram can confirm that.

I also don't think the coin was broadstruck, meaning struck without a collar as the diameter appears correct.  And what is "slightly broad struck" as either the collar is in place or its not related to that error.  Thats kinda like being "slightly" pregnant. 

https://www.error-ref.com/broadstrikes/

The date doesn’t really look "odd" comparing it to an MS example, except for some minor wear/hits to the characters as well as the "0" being jammed up against the rim a bit.  Looks like the dies may have moved a tinny bit during hubbing or striking.  But nothing to write home about.

I am curious about what may be a fishtailed or fadeout area above the head, with what looks like rounded tapering of the rims.  If that looks exactly the same on the reverse it might be a minor clipped planchet.  But I would need clear cropped pics of both sides not in the bag to check that out.

On 1/21/2024 at 12:04 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

would you let someone [NCS] clean [conserve] a 1949 S ms 67+ top pop 1 of 3 ... it's one of three in the world

No, not unless the coin would continue to deteriorate even if just left alone.

On 1/21/2024 at 10:33 PM, Midwest Dozer said:

im starting to think there is a ton of rude people

There are a few that occasionally post some rude stuff, like just about any other internet forum.  But Greenstang generally isn't one of them, and I think he may have just misread your post that you were considering having someone you know "clean" the coin.

You absolutely could ruin the coin trying to "clean" it, which would definitely not be a wise thing to attempt.  And NCS doesn't "clean" coins, they only "conserve" them which I think is the disconnect.

On 1/22/2024 at 12:23 AM, powermad5000 said:

[conserving] may expose underlying surface issues which can affect the grade. Your MS 67 after conservation may only grade as an MS 66

Not only can it affect the grade, but it can result in what would otherwise be a straight graded coin getting a Details grade or possibly being sent back in a body bag.

Sometimes there is really no way to tell if issues like that could be uncovered as a result of conserving a coin, and I believe the disclaimers for the service state that.  There have been a few topics here over the years where conservation was requested or recommended which ended with a Details grade and an unhappy collector.

That's why I agree with PM about not conserving a coin unless it would continue to deteriorate even if just left alone.

Did you bid on it?

On 1/21/2024 at 4:07 PM, powermad5000 said:

Just make sure you don't get "flip rub" having it against other flips that are being removed and replaced frequently

Technically "flip rub" is a rub mark you generally can get from sliding a coin into and out of the double pocket mylar/vinyl plastic flips.  So you can knock an MS coin down to an AU simply by putting a coin into a flip or sliding it out.

You may be thinking of scratches you can cause by storing stapled cardboard flips up against each other, where the staple of one flip contacts the coin of an adjacent flip.

See the Official Guide to Coin Grading by Travers which discusses both of these issues at length under the sections covering handling, storage and contact marks, and which is why I don't use either one of those methods for coin storage.  

On 1/21/2024 at 2:49 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

... it could grade well but at the moment I'm fine as is and just don't want it to get messed up

In my mind it's a no-brainer that a potentially valuable coin like that, if it grades out well, should go in an aftermarket slab specifically made for the coin given the potential pitfalls of flips.

On 1/18/2024 at 11:58 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

I believe I have found a cud on the rim, a die crack ... and possible doubling on the 8

Looking at VAMs for this date

I am also seeing a minor rim cud or delamination, scratches instead of die cracks at the date, and just a hit at the "8" in the date.  About the VAMs, are you looking at them for possible varieties, or to authenticate the coin as it appears to already be in a TPG holder, unless that's a similar aftermarket slab.

About the VAMs and varieties, there are only four VAMs or varieties NGC will attribute for a 1892-S Morgan which is a DDO, a TDO and two RPDs where I agree with PM that your coin does not appear to match any of those.  There are other VAMs or minor varieties, but they would not add any value.

If you are looking at VAMs to authenticate the coin there is too much discoloration combined with blurry photos to pick up any die markers, so you would would have to identify them with the coin in-hand.  But it does look like a normal date and mintmark position and orientation to me, which might help narrow the list down if needed.

On 1/20/2024 at 10:51 AM, J P M said:

This looks to be a nice scratch in the die

Wow, that is a pretty hefty die scratch.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

... mint sets that I’ld like to break open

Don't ... leave the mint sets and proofs in the OGP.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Really like the folders with the sliding windows

That's what I use for all my circulated modern coins from change or rolls.  But not for proofs, uncirculated coins, or more valuable coins due to the potential for slide marks from the clear plastic sheet that slip over the coins.

I prefer the Littleton 3-ring binder like albums with the insert pages that have clear sliding sheets.  They are well made, have the clear sheets on both sides of insert pages for viewing, are expandable with generic insert sheets, and albums for coin series have convenient labels on the spine so you can see what it is when kept on a bookcase.

The coins seem to fit really good in the Littleton album holes.  Due to the good fit only light pressure is required to ensure coins are set slightly below the holes (important) before sliding the clear sheets over the coins, but a tight enough fit to hold the coins in place.  This avoids the issue of causing slide marks on coins from slipping the clear sheets over the coins, as long as the side with coins set below holes is the only one used.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Really was ultimately looking for a capsule book so I can use the capsules which I like but display them in a way that I can arrange them nice to look at and be able to pick one out easy for inspection.

For capsules I use the large Lighthouse ENCAP storage binders that come with slipcases.  You can get various size binders and semi-rigid clear plastic insert sheets that hold a good amount of various diameter capsules, which are still easy to view.  They are not cheap, but less than say Intercept Shield holders or individual slabs, and are very well made.

With the large size binders (e.g Lighthouse Grande Giant/G binders with ENCAP pages) they can hold quite a lot of capsules, or about 300 smaller coin capsules per binder.  In addition they look really nice (a little like old leather bound books), so I also use them for more valuable coins or sets of better slabbed coins.

Wizard Coin Supply carries a good selection of the binders and ENCAP insert pages for either capsules or slabs.

Lighthouse Grande Giant/G Binders - Wizard Coin Supply

Lighthouse ENCAP Semi-rigid Insert Sheets - Wizard Coin Supply

On 1/21/2024 at 7:53 AM, Mellogrrl65 said:

I apologize for the ridiculous question

Better that you ask questions instead of running around like a 🐔 without a head submitting coins. 

On 1/21/2024 at 7:53 AM, Mellogrrl65 said:

one of her eyes has an eyeball and the other eye blank

Could be as JPM indicated, or possibly a hit from a small pointy object as it appears a little crater like with a raised rim.  I'm not sure if that's how it actually is with the coin in-hand.  In either case not something significant.

It's very difficult to grade gold coins from photos, particularly in a flip, and it just takes one barely visible rub mark to knock a coin with no signs of wear down to AU.  And having been in a bezel could be an issue.

I agree it would be worth getting graded, particularly to authenticate the coin since it's in top counterfeit lists with some very deceptive fakes.  Hopefully you bought the raw coin from a large reputable dealer who will stand behind the purchase it it comes back body bagged.

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/united-states/gold-quarter-eagles/58/

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/united-states/23/

On 1/20/2024 at 1:19 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

 

Nice little factoid.  I always suspected that the buffalo nickel portrait was based on an American Indian.  

Next you are going to say the reverse is actually an image of a bison.  

On 1/20/2024 at 2:02 AM, powermad5000 said:

From the site maddieclashes.com, this pic is of a typical Washington Quarter clash of which a remnant would have the eagle "dribbling spit" down not out. The OP's coin then would have either a die crack, or I am going to go with a gouge in the die, to make that line go straight out from the eagle. 

You are correct that the "Spitting Eagle" variety or die state is from a die clash which both NGC and PCG$ attributes for a 1983-P 25C with the clash mark from Washington's neck as FS-901 Spitting Eagle, with the chin also visible on some.

The clash mark starts below the eagle's beak near the tip and goes down at a slight angle to the top of the wing, and sometimes can also be visible on the wing.  See the attachede"Spitting Eagle" quarter example and NGC article linked below.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/3480/Spitting-eagle-1983-P-quarter/

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1983-p-25c-fs-901-spitting-eagle/520032

On 1/20/2024 at 2:12 AM, cobymordet said:

Now the question remains. . . is the Spitting Eagle variety a clashed die or a cracked die.

The FS-901 "Spitting Eagle" variety as identified by NGC and PCG$ is technically only from a clashed die on a 1983-P quarter.

There are some other Washington quarters with a die crack that also starts just below or at the eagle's beak tip, but they would not be attributed as a "Spitting Eagle" variety, contrary to claims from many Etsy/eBay scam artists.  The coins with those die cracks starting at the beak tip would be more correctly referred to as maybe a "Pseudo Spitting Eagle" if anything, and are just curiosity finds.

On 1/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This is a type of quarter known as a Spitting Eagle. My esteemed friends seem not as versed in the coin world as I so I will explain these coins to you and them. The 1983 P Quarter Spitting Eagle FS 901 Variety exhibits a very similar die crack which often but not always transverses down to the wing. The die crack direction can vary for the 1983 Spitting Eagle FS 901 variety. Although the variety is most commonly found on the 1983 P Quarter it can also appear on any other year of quarter with that obverse reverse. Search: Spitting Eagle Quarter for more information. Both PCGS and NGC recognize this variety.

I think your arrogance is only matched by your ineptitude, and you are the one not well versed who needs an explanation.  The FS-901 variety for a 1983-P quarter is from a die clash, not a die crack.  Read the above linked NGC article.

And critically, the op's coin looks nothing like the FS-901 "Spitting Eagle" die clash variety, or other "Pseudo Spitting Eagle" coins resulting from die cracks, which start just below or at the eagle's beak tip.

On 1/20/2024 at 1:46 AM, powermad5000 said:

If this coin's weight is on, you can dismiss the missing clad layer theory as if it were truly missing that much clad which is about 15% of the total weight I believe, this coin would weigh somewhere near 5 grams

Each clad layer is roughly 15% of the coin weight, so that would be 30% for both sides.  But there is only roughly half the area affected between the two sides which would put it at about 5 grams if that's what you were getting at.

But I don't think there is any shot it's the result of partial cladding loss or the result of acid damage completely removing cladding on both sides with that pattern and appearance (see attached for appearance of acid damaged coin).  So if it does turn out to be under weight it would likely be a painted coin with a thinner than normal planchet.

[Note that this could be a failed attempt to fake a missing cladding mint error by painting the coin a brown core like color and then partially removing that paint with like a weak corrosive or similar to give the appearance of peeling clad layers.]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:29 PM, Glynn K. said:

Even without a scale I can tell this thing weighs a lot less than a standard quarter.  An acid bath is likely the answer but what the heck - it's only money.

I dont think it's an acid bath coin where outer cladding is almost completely eroded as it doesn't have a very mushy appearance with just too much detail remaining.  Attached is an example acid bath damaged clad quarter with the outer cladding almost completely gone from error-ref.com, where your coin would have even more damage if the core is becoming exposed.

I would look at the edge of your coin to see if it has an "oreo cookie" like appearance similar to the attached as the copper core is more reactive to an acid giving the coin that appearance, but I doubt that is the case.  Also, I would accurately weigh your coin to try and come up with more definitive answers before you waste any more time or money on it.

On 1/19/2024 at 10:19 PM, Sandon said:

If you do obtain another expert opinion that the coin is a mint error, such submission could be worthwhile.

What mint error are you thinking this coin may have to make it worthwhile to get another expert opinion?

Yea it's so unusual to agree with someone on one thing yet disagree on another.  Just having a little fun with some of this, so lighten up, like I care what you think anyway.

On 1/19/2024 at 2:06 PM, Going for broke said:

It looks like the eagle is shooting a laser out of its eye

It does look a little like that, and maybe a curiosity find you might want to put aside. I'm so glad you didn't try and give the coin some type of cutesy nickname like some others. 

On 1/19/2024 at 8:49 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

That proof was struck on a defective planchet that had a metal impurity or foreign inclusion within the planchet

Its just a known cladding adherence problem common to copper clad zinc cents possibly combined with contaminates that's not linked to inclusions.  Have you been drinking again and mulling over "molecular copper effervescence" again.  

There is a blotchy and very thin appearance of the exposed layer, whether that is a coating or cladding, with an off brown color that doesn't really look like copper in mostly lower relief areas.  It is also very unlikely to have a loss of cladding on both sides of a coin from a mint error, and it doesnt have the really mushy appearance of an acid reduced clad coin that completely eats away normal cladding.  See the linked PCG$ and error-ref.com articles which discusses these things.

That combined with a somewhat granular surface, which looks a little like a coin exposed to something like a weak acid, leads me to believe it's a painted or coated coin with that outer layer removed by wear and exposure to a weak corrosive.

If you weigh the coin on a calibrated scale with an 0.01g accuracy it likely would weigh about what a regular quarter for that year would be at about 5.67g, or possibly slightly over to account for the paint or coating.

That or there was very thin cladding layers on both sides of a coin exposed to a [very weak] acid, although there would be almost no chance of that so it would then likely be a very thin out of spec planchet which was painted.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/missing-clad-layer-mint-error-coins

https://www.error-ref.com/acid-shrunk-coins/

On 1/19/2024 at 7:47 AM, edhalbrook said:

I don't get what is good about it ... I being a beginner would have tossed it in with my junk coins.

Toned coins is a newer trend in what some collectors prefer, along with the latest which is colorized coins, although it's really not my style or it sounds like yours either.  In fact I think some of the recent colorized coins look like they belong in a clown's pocket.  I prefer a bright silver color, or a more dull grey for older worn coins.  Seems more natural or consistent with how coins should look to me, although some may say that is more of an old school viewpoint.

Toned coins like the one posted actually get a grade bump for the "eye appeal" portion of the grade, and some of the bright rainbow toned coins go for outrageous increases in prices as they are generally very unique and it just takes two people who really want a coin for bidding to go through the roof.  It can be a 2x or 3x increase in some cases.

Beat the holder with a hammer until it breaks and then send it to NGC in a flip.  

On 1/18/2024 at 2:58 PM, C.j.4 said:

I looked at a lot of penny

Well, hopefully she was good looking.