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Different sets, same ranking

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Legionary1

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How in the name of Eric P. Newman is it possible for different sets to have the same ranking?

I am referring to my 1940 year set (which has been the #1 set in the registry for six out of the last seven years) and Coinbuf's 1940 set. My set has the #1 ranking for 2020, and so does his.

Yesterday, my set was in the #1 position, and now it is #2.

How is this at all possible?

 

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Well, two sets can have the same ranking if they have the same point total, number of images, number of comments and number of NGC coins. This usually happens with sets of MS70/PF70 NCLT and moderns.

Us sets / categories get a "Best in Category" and an "NGC Best in Category" each year. Maybe each of you won one of these in 2020?

It's also possible that you're seeing yourself as #1 when only NGC coins are considered and him as #1 when all coins are considered (including PCGS). Or vice versa.

This is all me guessing.

Edited by Revenant
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My set is the 2020 NGC Best in Category; Coinbuf's set is the 2020 Best in Category.

My problems are that the web page defaults to 'Best in Category'; I also can't access the NGC Best in Category rankings. 

 

IMHO, it rather defeats the purpose of a NGC registry by allowing PCGS-certified coins to be added.

 

Edited by Legionary1
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@Revenant has it correct, at the 2020 registry cutoff I had the most total points all coins combined, you had the most points NGC certified coins only.  Ergo you won the NGC best in category award and I won the best in category award.   There have been some recent changes to the registry system; specifically to the old collectors society system; as now if you attempt to access the sets using that system it automatically redirects you to the new registry format where you cannot toggle from all coins and only NGC graded coins as you could in the old system.  Or at least I have been unable to find that function in the new registry system so far, so when you view the new system it just shows my set as number one.

Another change to the registry system last week was the addition of CAC bonus points, and that is why I now hold the top spot for both the overall combined score and the NGC graded only coins.  If you totally eliminate the three PCGS coins in my set my new score after the CAC bonus points were added is 13,371 to your 13,182, so at this moment my set has the best score for both combined and NGC only coins.

For what its worth I do agree with you on the scoring of PCGS coins in the NGC registry.  I have said many times here on the forum that I very much enjoy being able to display both my NGC and PCGS coins in my registry sets.  But when it comes to scoring those PCGS coins should be given scores of 0 and only one best of category award should be given for the set that scores the highest NGC graded only.   However I don't make the rules, so I play the game the way its setup.

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Hello, Coinbuf:

Thanks for getting back to me on that; I rather thought that was the situation.

My 1940 set had a good run, #1 in the registry for six out of the last seven years.

You'll just have to pardon me if I don't let you rest on your laurels....;)

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Coinbuf said:

Your welcome sir, and I look forward to sparing with you again this year. :)

Indeed.

I see that your purpose in assembling your 1940 set was to honor your mother; most commendable, that.

 

My objective when I started 10 or so years ago was to assemble a complete set of all U.S coins issued during World War II, all dates, denominations inclusive

The 1940 set is especially meaningful for me because both of my parents were born that year, just a couple of months apart.

 

Certain issues I'll never be able to afford, such as the 1941-S walking liberty NGC MS67 and the 1945-P Mercury in NGC MS67 FB; with careful planning, however, none of the other issues are beyond my reach.

 

The set is complete, except for the 1943-S walking Liberty in either NGC MS66+ or NGC MS67. Right now, my objective is increasing the quality of the specimens I have and reclaiming my throne from a certain usurper.....:tonofbricks:

  

 

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On 5/23/2021 at 12:34 PM, Legionary1 said:

Right now, my objective is increasing the quality of the specimens I have and reclaiming my throne from a certain usurper.....:tonofbricks:

lol I'll be cheering for the usurper! (thumbsu

Good job, Both of you. :golfclap:

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That is cool that the 40 set has a similar meaning for us both.   Never say never, the 41-S walker had been moving down some in price since 2015 difficult to say if it will stabilize going forward or if the hot market will lift prices again.   

I see you bought that 40-P in 67+ from eBay, nice addition.   I considered it just to up the NGC points but decided that doubling up on that date/grade was not a good choice for me as my goal is the overall point lead not the NGC only points.  I'll be watching your progress. 

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48 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

That is cool that the 40 set has a similar meaning for us both.   Never say never, the 41-S walker had been moving down some in price since 2015 difficult to say if it will stabilize going forward or if the hot market will lift prices again.   

I see you bought that 40-P in 67+ from eBay, nice addition.   I considered it just to up the NGC points but decided that doubling up on that date/grade was not a good choice for me as my goal is the overall point lead not the NGC only points

 

 I'll be watching your progress. 

I also picked up the 40-S NGC MS67 CAC, too.

I only have NGC-certified coins in my collection, because PCGS is another service. if I were to drop something like $900.00 on a PCGS-certified coin (because it's in a grade I want), send to NGC for a cross-over and have it come back as a lower grade, I'd be very angry   

I'll be after you like the Wild Hunt after a guilty soul......

 

Edited by Legionary1
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4 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Better save some money, catching that 1945 set will cost you a ton in upgrades.

It already has.

 

I think the highest I can get it to is the #2 ranking.

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I would have loved to have bought that NGC 40S Walker that sold on GC last night, I put in a placeholder bid of $2,100  knowing it would go for much more.  As expected it went for over $4K so sadly it did not come home with me, would have added over 4K in registry points. 

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I looked up the auction, and that piece was MS67.

 

If you had won with that low-ball bid of yours, it would have been the steal of the decade... 

Edited by Legionary1
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On 5/24/2021 at 11:46 AM, Coinbuf said:

  I'll be watching your progress. 

I'm starting to catch up with you; those two Lincoln cents I purchased returned my 1940 set back to the #1 spot in the NGC rankings (where it rightfully belongs...:banana:). Now, I've got just 2,216 points to go until I take the #1 in the overall rankings. 

NGC finally got around to awarding me the points for that '40-S CAC Linc I picked up on May 22nd; seems that it was on file in the registry under someone else's name, even after I bought it. 

My next objective is for my 1943 set to take the #1 spot in both the NGC and overall rankings...  

Edited by Legionary1
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I have just carried off a coup of my own.

Between 2006 and 2019, T S Chase absolutely owned the rankings for the 1943 set (except for 2013, when someone else had the #1 spot). In those years, he had the #1 ranked 1943 set in the NGC Registry 13 (!!) times and the #1 ranked 1943 set in the Overall Registry seven times.

In 2020, this worthy gentleman was knocked off his perch by Geoff and Sandy Katz, whose 1943 set occupied both of the #1 spots in the NGC and Overall Registries for that year.

Today, I am pleased to report that I am now have the #1 position in both registries.  

Edited by Legionary1
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No worries the NGC only raking is of no concern to me, and I have a few adds to my set that are not showing just yet. ;)

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4 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

No worries the NGC only raking is of no concern to me, and I have a few adds to my set that are not showing just yet. ;)

Lay on MacDuff and damn'd be he who first cries 'Hold, Enough'....

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My 1943 set is still in the #1 spot in the NGC registry; however, I've dropped to the #2 spot in the overall registry thanks to Chancey MS60+, who has more than a few MS68 specimens in his '43 set...

Edited by Legionary1
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I have now increased the lead of my 1940 mint set over that of my worthy competitor Coinbuf via the purchase of a 1940-S mercury dime in the grade of NGC MS67 CAC.

 

All that remains for me to complete the set is a 1940 Walker in NGC MS67.

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Congrats on making that 40-S Lincoln in 67+, I noticed that the pop increased when you added it to your set so I'm assuming you or someone you know made or crossed it.

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On 11/14/2021 at 8:45 AM, Coinbuf said:

Congrats on making that 40-S Lincoln in 67+, I noticed that the pop increased when you added it to your set so I'm assuming you or someone you know made or crossed it.

I purchased the coin back on August 29th of this year, and it was already slabbed as a 67+. I presume that it had been submitted for certification by a previous owner.

I am looking for a 40-D Linc in NGC 67+, but the few I have seen are PCGS, not NGC.

 

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The 40-D will be tough unless you can find one that has just been made or crossed.   The NGC census shows 3 in 67+ and one in 68, however I have not found even one of those four coins listed in any of the NGC registry sets I've looked at.    Perhaps they are in private sets where the coins are not shown or listed, or they have been cracked and crossed for use in the PCGS registry.   Either way you will have quite a challenge to find one in NGC plastic; but I hope you are able to find one.

Not a coin that I really have any interest in chasing myself.   Most of the time these sell for around 1K and up vs an MS67 which usually sells around $125 and the registry only gives you a 20 point bump from MS67 to MS67+, too much expense given the low reward imo.

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On 11/17/2021 at 1:55 PM, Coinbuf said:

The 40-D will be tough unless you can find one that has just been made or crossed.   The NGC census shows 3 in 67+ and one in 68, however I have not found even one of those four coins listed in any of the NGC registry sets I've looked at.    Perhaps they are in private sets where the coins are not shown or listed, or they have been cracked and crossed for use in the PCGS registry.   Either way you will have quite a challenge to find one in NGC plastic; but I hope you are able to find one.

Not a coin that I really have any interest in chasing myself.   Most of the time these sell for around 1K and up vs an MS67 which usually sells around $125 and the registry only gives you a 20 point bump from MS67 to MS67+, too much expense given the low reward imo.

Upon further consideration and based on your sage advice, I'll not pursue getting a '40-D Linc in NGC MS67+; the kind of money you say I'd have to pay for only 20 more registry points makes it not worth the time and trouble.

In other matters, my congratulations on your acquisition of that 1940 Walking Liberty in NGC MS67+ CAC; you really stole a march on me with that one. Such a grade is the next best thing to MS68.

Might I enquire what you paid for that coin?

 

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Thank you, I hope to have some photos of it up soon as I think it has a very nice look.   And it certainly was not inexpensive at close to $1,400 it is twice as expensive as any other coin in the set.   I am sure that little green bean was responsible for pushing the price up in the GC auction where I bought it, but I really wanted it so I sold off a couple of Morgan dollars to make it happen.

Going back to the 40-D, I do not really understand why the point bump is so low for the 40-D in 67+ when both the P and S coins have a very large spread in the points.   I would guess that its an oversight on the part of the registry team and one day they may decide to change that.   If that does change in the future then perhaps it might be worth taking a second look at.   I have only one coin that I really want to upgrade and that is the 40-S half, I would really like one day to have a 67 in that slot.   This is another coin where the registry point values seem very skewed, 1500 points for the MS66 to 6000 points for one grade higher.   And its not like 67's are rare as the NGC pop report shows 21 in 67.   However given the hefty price tag of around $5K I may never be able to afford one.

In the past I have been critical of the dual award system that NGC uses, but in this case I am happy that your set will receive a first place award too, you have a magnificent set and it deserves to be recognized.   Congratulations in advance as I fully expect you to win the NGC only 1st place award.  :golfclap:

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On 11/21/2021 at 10:18 AM, Coinbuf said:

Thank you, I hope to have some photos of it up soon as I think it has a very nice look.   And it certainly was not inexpensive at close to $1,400 it is twice as expensive as any other coin in the set.   I am sure that little green bean was responsible for pushing the price up in the GC auction where I bought it, but I really wanted it so I sold off a couple of Morgan dollars to make it happen.

Going back to the 40-D, I do not really understand why the point bump is so low for the 40-D in 67+ when both the P and S coins have a very large spread in the points.   I would guess that its an oversight on the part of the registry team and one day they may decide to change that.   If that does change in the future then perhaps it might be worth taking a second look at.   I have only one coin that I really want to upgrade and that is the 40-S half, I would really like one day to have a 67 in that slot.   This is another coin where the registry point values seem very skewed, 1500 points for the MS66 to 6000 points for one grade higher.   And its not like 67's are rare as the NGC pop report shows 21 in 67.   However given the hefty price tag of around $5K I may never be able to afford one.

In the past I have been critical of the dual award system that NGC uses, but in this case I am happy that your set will receive a first place award too, you have a magnificent set and it deserves to be recognized.   Congratulations in advance as I fully expect you to win the NGC only 1st place award.  :golfclap:

Your kind words are most gratefully accepted, sir.

Good luck on trying to find an NGC-certified MS67  '40-S Walker at anything close to a reasonable price.

Currently, the only one I see for sale in ebay right now is going for just under $9K.

Congrats also on snagging that 1940 Merc in NGC MS67FB+ CAC; the next-best thing to NGC MS68FB, I say....

Edited by Legionary1
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